New Jetbeam M2S with SST-50 LED [+ Pics heavy]

[brianch]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

I'm still on the wire on this one though. I am just afraid that if I buy it, a revision will come out soon to fix issues. Not that all manufacturers are free from this. I am not the kind to purchase lights upon release.. But JETBeam lights are my favorite and this is really tempting me.. I will most likely wait it out a few months before I actually buy it though. If anything the newer revisions will be more efficient... And if not then I guess I missed out on a few months of pissing off my neighbors.

 

[brianch]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

My Catapult is 3A the revised version and its only warm after 30 minutes. They need to work on this 3 minutes is to short of run time on hi.

I think internally that SST-50 at 3amps is much hotter then you think. The heat might not be getting to the body efficiently. My experience playing with a SST-50 at full power in a P60 module tells me that it gets HOT much faster then an MC-E or P7 at full power. I don't know the exact temperature where the light is considered too hot to be safe but I couldn't pick up the SST-50 P60 after 30 seconds of it being on. It can't be good for the light. I do agree though that 3 minutes is a bit too conservative for my liking. They should consider moving it to 10 minutes or more.

 

[SureAddicted]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

I think internally that SST-50 at 3amps is much hotter then you think. The heat might not be getting to the body efficiently. My experience playing with a SST-50 at full power in a P60 module tells me that it gets HOT much faster then an MC-E or P7 at full power. I don't know the exact temperature where the light is considered too hot to be safe but I couldn't pick up the SST-50 P60 after 30 seconds of it being on. It can't be good for the light. I do agree though that 3 minutes is a bit too conservative for my liking. They should consider moving it to 10 minutes or more.

The big difference between your SST-50 dropin and the Catapult is that the later has more surface area to dissipate the heat, plus adequate heat seaking, which is probably a lot more than your P60 host.
3 minutes is way to conservative, If it was around 10 mins it would be better. The cooling fins do look beefy, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. I'm not aware of any MC-E lights with a timer on it, nor any other light for that matter.

 

[grunscga]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

I'm still learning a lot about batteries, and I wonder about the M2S being able to be comfortably driven by RCR or primaries. It seems like most of the other lights in this class are 18650-only, with the high current I'd think the voltage sag on RCR/primaries could be a potential safety issue. In the very least you'd need to be extremely (even more so) cautious that all the batteries match at these voltages, if I am not mistaken.

Can anyone comment on this?

Ooo, I like maths! (and, I'm curious about this myself) Let's see, the emitter is going to need about 14W (3.5V @ 4A).

4 RCR123s running at 1.5A (max safe current) is 25.2W @4.2V (fully charged), 21.6W @3.6V ("discharged"), and 15W @2.5V (dead). Chop 15% off for waste in the buck circuitry and you're at ~21W, ~18W, and ~13W. So, yes, 4x RCR123s should put out plenty of power within the normal voltage range, but they will quickly kill themselves (permanently) if you let them go too low (assuming perfect regulation that always feeds 14W to the emitter). Protected RCRs are very important to prevent issues with 1 dead and 3 charged batteries.

4 CR123As start at 3V each and have approximately the same "safe" max current, so there you start at 18W * 85% = ~15W, and you head downhill from there as the voltage sags. My guess is that the runtime curve on 4xCR123As is not going to be pretty if you want to run on max ("ski slope" comes to mind), but the 3 minute limit might help that some. As far as needing to use balanced cells, talk to the incan guys about how wise it is to stuff 3 live and 1 dead CR123As into a high-draw light.

Personally, I like having the option of running on primaries, but would personally consider this a (protected) Li-Ion only light, except in emergencies. Also, I would probably try to avoid long runs on max if using CR123As.

18650s and their 4A max are obviously going to be fine. (~29W available on a full charge, even after circuit losses)

 

[brianch]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

The big difference between your SST-50 dropin and the Catapult is that the later has more surface area to dissipate the heat, plus adequate heat seaking, which is probably a lot more than your P60 host.
3 minutes is way to conservative, If it was around 10 mins it would be better. The cooling fins do look beefy, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. I'm not aware of any MC-E lights with a timer on it, nor any other light for that matter.

Yea I wouldn't mind if they extended it to 10minutes but I do believe placing a time restriction on the turbo mode is worth doing. Protects ignorant users from damaging their lights. We will see if there is a revised version with a longer run period.

 

[DimeRazorback]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

Yea I wouldn't mind if they extended it to 10minutes but I do believe placing a time restriction on the turbo mode is worth doing. Protects ignorant users from damaging their lights. We will see if there is a revised version with a longer run period.

Exactly, unless Jetbeam know something about the SST-50 that other manufacturers don't, I don't think I will ever understand such a small time bracket.

 

[jhc37013]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

It kinda sucks the extender tube is sold and I assume packaged separately. I hope the non-flashaholics of the world read the details and pick up on it so they can enjoy the lights full potential.

 

[brianch]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

I don't think the M2S uses an extension tube. It runs on 2x18650s out of the box.

Now where are more pictures... I need more pictures!

 

[jhc37013]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

From the bottom of the page of the link provided by OP at BOG's website it says

*** 2 18650 can only be used with the optional battery extender ***

Maybe I am misreading it but that's how interpretate it.

 

[gooseman]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

I don't understand why manufacturer's provide time limits for maximum outputs, it seems there are better alternatives.

Why not regulate on both current and temperature? A thermistor could provide feedback to the regulator so that it can adjust the max current at a safe temperature. Possibly even better, current temperature and the rate of temperature difference w/respect to time should be considered. Its been a while since I did circuit design, but it does not seem like it would be expensive or difficult to design.

With the current scheme, what if I am in Arizona during the summer? The ambient temp is 95' at night time. Is 3 minutes safe enough? What about in the winter? Its probably too conservative.

If somebody is going to fry the thing, they'll just put it on turbo again once the light goes to a lower setting, unless that is timed also. And then you have the same problem again, how long to wait until allowing the user to put the light on high again?

 

[brianch]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

Thats strange all the runtime and compatibility specs say 2x18650 or 4xcr123a... Oh well I guess we gotta wait to find out more.. This light is now available for preorder at lightjunction and tactical leds as well !

 

[brianch]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

Heres the product description from tacticalleds.com

The newest JETBeam M2S is designed with the latest SST-50 LED. The SST-50 produces an amazing 1000 lumens from 2 18650 rechargable batteries or 4 CR123A Lithium batteries.

Out the front lumen is approximately 750 lumen

Runtimes: Using 2* 18650 rechargeable batteries, compatible with both 4 *CR123 or 4 *RCR123 rechargeable Li-ion batteries, under max output condition the M2S can run for approximately 40 minutes.

Due to the heat output of the SST50 LED when running at 4A (working current), The M2S' built in circuit protection handles the thermal issue by allowing the user to use the full output for 3 continuous minutes in High mode and then the M2S will automatically switch to Mid mode(450 lumen).
In Mid mode it can run for approximately 2 hours.
The output of Low mode is 50 lumen, and run time is about 20 hours.

Functions:
User can switch the modes quickly by tightening/loosening the light bezel.
Tightening the head for Max output (continuous use for 3 minutes and automatically switches to Mid mode)
Loosening the head for Mid mode - Low mode - 15HZ strobe

Features

• Model: M2S
• LED: SST-50
• Max Output: 750 Lumen (Torch Lumen) / 1000 Lumen (LED Lumen)
• Reflector: aluminum reflector
• Lens: Toughened ultra-clear mineral glass with anti-reflective coating
• Material: T6061 T6 aircraft aluminum alloy
• Finish: HA III Military grade hard anodized
• Battery: CR123*4, RCR123*4, 18650 Li-ion*2
• Input voltage: 6.5-18V
• Switch: Forward clickie switch
• Waterproof: Accord to IPX-8 standard
• Patented Product.

 

[jhc37013]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

Thats strange all the runtime and compatibility specs say 2x18650 or 4xcr123a

Yep that is what I was thinking they usually show runtime/output right out of box with no extender tube and then show performance with it also.

 

[brianch]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

I don't understand why manufacturer's provide time limits for maximum outputs, it seems there are better alternatives.

Why not regulate on both current and temperature? A thermistor could provide feedback to the regulator so that it can adjust the max current at a safe temperature. Possibly even better, current temperature and the rate of temperature difference w/respect to time should be considered. Its been a while since I did circuit design, but it does not seem like it would be expensive or difficult to design.

With the current scheme, what if I am in Arizona during the summer? The ambient temp is 95' at night time. Is 3 minutes safe enough? What about in the winter? Its probably too conservative.

If somebody is going to fry the thing, they'll just put it on turbo again once the light goes to a lower setting, unless that is timed also. And then you have the same problem again, how long to wait until allowing the user to put the light on high again?

I think you should work for JETBeam =D

Because obviously the engineers at JETBeam don't know how to :naughty:

 

[gooseman]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

I think you should work for JETBeam =D

Because obviously the engineers at JETBeam don't know how to :naughty:

I would bet that the engineers at JetBeam know how to do this; there must be some unknown (to me) factor preventing its realization. The engineers who designed the nice IBS regulator for the Jet I Pro V3 know that they are doing

So JetBeam, as your external designs are a work of art, up the ante and make your SST-50 regulator one also:naughty:

 

[LowFlux]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

Ooo, I like maths! (and, I'm curious about this myself)

grunscga, thanks for this contribution! (Plus you've given me some math proof I can use for future inquiries) :wave:

 

[windstrings]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

We all know surface temp is what determine how many lumens are emitted from a given surface.

From the little I know about LEDs and especially SST's, it seems the SST's are hot running little devils! :devil:

As with everything.. there are curves.... the SSTs apparently produce more heat than can be immediately dissipated efficiently unless you dial them back and don't drive them as hard.

To the degree we can dissipate heat will determine how hard we can drive them.

I think manufacturers get nervous when people start adding cells to raise the voltage "even though it will handle it" because that allows a tad more amperage to pass "I would think"..... even through a regulated circuit?

Even if we start making quad type die's in the sense we stack them next to each other, they may cook each other and we would need a much bigger reflector to pass the lumens and lots or orange peel to help smooth out the pattern.

Seems we just need a more efficient LED that runs cooler.... humm...

 

[zs&tas]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

so, how would this compare to the wolfeyes whale then ?

 

[289]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

Nice light, if all of my other jeatbeams are any indication then this thing will be great.

Bummer that it is a twisty, for me that is a deal breaker.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED

It looks awesome, but I'd rather use my incans or HID for high output, as they have no heat restrictions.