SF MN61 HOLA vs LF HO-M4A

Fusion_m8

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SF MN60 & MN61 on 3x17670s

I'm wondering which bulb will be brighter in my SF M4: the SF MN61 HOLA rated at 350lumens and drawing 2.51-2.85amps OR the LF HO-M4A rated at 550lumens but drawing 2.15amps.

The SF MN61 draws higher current but seems to have a lower output on paper.

Has anyone compared the 2 and discovered which lamp is brighter on 4xCR123s or 3xLi-ons??
 
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LumensFactory sells BULBS, not flashlights, they list bulb lumens at a given input voltage. Surefire sells completed flashlights and they list average torch lumens. The number can not and should not be compared without substantial conversions applied to makeup for the way the ratings are acquired in the first place. I can tell you that the SF MN61 is actually closer to 400 torch lumens, and the LF HO-M4T is going to be pretty close to 350 torch lumens in a surefire turbohead.
 
I have to agree...I have two Surefire M6 lights and I tested the Surefire MN20 (250 lumens) and a LF HO-M3T (380 lumens) and found that side by side the MN20 is a bit brighter but that the LF HO-M3T has a tighter hotspot.

It seems that the 65 percent rule works well to convert the LF bulb lumens down to a realistic torch lumen output. In this case the LF HO-M3T translates to a real world 247 lumens.

So to bring it back around...I would convert the bulb lumens (550) to torch lumens (roughly 357) and go from there.
 
I just set up 3x 17500 unprotecteds + 1/2 spacer + 1 detonator extender for my m4 with a mn61. its bright but how safe and runtime is not known
to me. Has anyone here have a similar set up? please advise:sssh:
 
I just set up 3x 17500 unprotecteds + 1/2 spacer + 1 detonator extender for my m4 with a mn61. its bright but how safe and runtime is not known
to me. Has anyone here have a similar set up? please advise

Advising beginning:

firstly: Using unprotected cells in series is a no-no unless you are willing to test cells very frequently. This type of set up is likely to produce a very heavily discharged or reverse charged cell if not monitored very closely.

Typical 17500s are rated 1000-1100mAH capacity and are rated to safely deliver ~1.5-2A continuous discharge depending on the brand.

The MN61 is designed to run at about [email protected], you are pushing it it at about [email protected]. It is designed to have about a 30 hour life at 9V, it will have somewhere in the ballpark of 2 to 6 hours life in your current configuration. Premature failure is probable. Notice that at 2.8A, you are way over the safe limit for 17500 cells. Combine that with the fact you are using unprotected cells and you could say I am a bit concerned.
 
This may be slightly off the subject, but I just received the 700 Lumen Lamp for my M6 running 6 AWs. My m6 has been through several configurations including the FiveMega extender with 6 17670s, and 6 3v rechargebles running the MN20.
The Lumens Factory configuration is my favorite. It produces an LED type WHITE light. Very nice! I hate those lamps that produce the yellow tint, regardless of Lumen output. I was pleasently shocked by LF lamp.
 
Advising beginning:

firstly: Using unprotected cells in series is a no-no unless you are willing to test cells very frequently. This type of set up is likely to produce a very heavily discharged or reverse charged cell if not monitored very closely.

Typical 17500s are rated 1000-1100mAH capacity and are rated to safely deliver ~1.5-2A continuous discharge depending on the brand.

The MN61 is designed to run at about [email protected], you are pushing it it at about [email protected]. It is designed to have about a 30 hour life at 9V, it will have somewhere in the ballpark of 2 to 6 hours life in your current configuration. Premature failure is probable. Notice that at 2.8A, you are way over the safe limit for 17500 cells. Combine that with the fact you are using unprotected cells and you could say I am a bit concerned.
Thank you for your advice and concern. Ill dump the unprotecteds and get
some AW protecteds and just be happy with the mn60 or LF new 9V bulb
for the M6. I thought the mn 61 was 12 volt
 
Thank you for your advice and concern. Ill dump the unprotecteds and get
some AW protecteds and just be happy with the mn60 or LF new 9V bulb
for the M6. I thought the mn 61 was 12 volt

Sorry I didn't clarify further... that can be a confusing point to understand...

Like Size15's was saying, Batteries do not maintain their label voltage when loaded.

For example, a 2D mag light, sure you can put 2x1.5V Alkaline cells in it,.... but have a look at the bulb, it's a 2.4V bulb. This is partially because Alkaline cells do not maintain 1.5V when current starts flowing from them. All batteries have some internal resistance, the amount of resistance determines how well they hold their voltage up when current is demanded from them.

For simplicity sake, We usually see tactical lamp assemblies sold with label voltage ratings based on the label volts of the number of cells applied. I think this is done to try to reduce confusion in the industry... But then someone like me comes along and turns that happy little fantasy up-side down and reveals what's going on, lol.... Most SF LOLA lamps pull about 1.2 amps from the CR123s, a CR123 actually delivers about 2.5V per cell at this load. At around 2.5 amp, where most SF HOLA lamps run, a CR123 delivers about 2.20-2.25V. In actuality, the MN16 has a design voltage of about 6.6-6.75V, the MN61 is running around 8.8-9.0V, even though they are rated "9V" and "12V" respectively. If you were to put the MN61 on a bench power supply and run it at 12V, it would either insta-flash or blow within a few minutes.


About the new LF bulb for the M6- I assume you mean the "13V" bulb? the HO-M6R?
 
Sorry I didn't clarify further... that can be a confusing point to understand...

Like Size15's was saying, Batteries do not maintain their label voltage when loaded.

For example, a 2D mag light, sure you can put 2x1.5V Alkaline cells in it,.... but have a look at the bulb, it's a 2.4V bulb. This is partially because Alkaline cells do not maintain 1.5V when current starts flowing from them. All batteries have some internal resistance, the amount of resistance determines how well they hold their voltage up when current is demanded from them.

For simplicity sake, We usually see tactical lamp assemblies sold with label voltage ratings based on the label volts of the number of cells applied. I think this is done to try to reduce confusion in the industry... But then someone like me comes along and turns that happy little fantasy up-side down and reveals what's going on, lol.... Most SF LOLA lamps pull about 1.2 amps from the CR123s, a CR123 actually delivers about 2.5V per cell at this load. At around 2.5 amp, where most SF HOLA lamps run, a CR123 delivers about 2.20-2.25V. In actuality, the MN16 has a design voltage of about 6.6-6.75V, the MN61 is running around 8.8-9.0V, even though they are rated "9V" and "12V" respectively. If you were to put the MN61 on a bench power supply and run it at 12V, it would either insta-flash or blow within a few minutes.


About the new LF bulb for the M6- I assume you mean the "13V" bulb? the HO-M6R?
Thanks for enlightening me. yes i kinda glimpsed somewhere in the forum that the LF for the M6 would work with 3x17500s but now im not sure if the meant it for a paralell or series .....help:eek:oo:
 
The HO-M6R can run on 3x17500s within reasonable safety provided you are using good 17500s, AW's 1100mAH 17500s test above rated capacity at most drain rates, so the 2.1A should be fine for them.

Seems to me though, if this is the desired configuration, a Wolf-Eyes M90 with the short extender and 3x18500 on the EO-13 would be more practical.
 
The HO-M6R can run on 3x17500s within reasonable safety provided you are using good 17500s, AW's 1100mAH 17500s test above rated capacity at most drain rates, so the 2.1A should be fine for them.

Seems to me though, if this is the desired configuration, a Wolf-Eyes M90 with the short extender and 3x18500 on the EO-13 would be more practical.

Finally free lumens... mm sort of. I wouldnt mind WE 's and when I get some bucks will do so, but for now I got to go with the girl I brought to the dance...lol .. thanks so much Mdocod
 
Will there be a noticeable difference in output between the Surefire MN16 and LumensFactory EO-M3T with AW 17670s in my M4?

I'm currently running the LF EO-M3T with 2xAW17670s in my M4 and I'm wondering if its worth buying the Surefire MN16 to get 10%-20% brighter output?



The HO-M6R can run on 3x17500s within reasonable safety provided you are using good 17500s, AW's 1100mAH 17500s test above rated capacity at most drain rates, so the 2.1A should be fine for them.

Seems to me though, if this is the desired configuration, a Wolf-Eyes M90 with the short extender and 3x18500 on the EO-13 would be more practical.
 
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Will there be a noticeable difference in output between the Surefire MN16 and LumensFactory EO-M3T with AW 17670s in my M4?

I'm currently running the LF EO-M3T with 2xAW17670s in my M4 and I'm wondering if its worth buying the Surefire MN16 to get 10%-20% brighter output?


I find the MN16 to be noticeably whiter and brighter than the HO M3T, but I have not run an EO M3T, so I guess I am not much help ;)
 
SF MN60 & MN61 on 3x17670s

I'm powering the MN60 & MN61 with 3x AW protected 17670s in my M4. Of course output is stunning, but how badly am I overdriving the lamps?
Usually I use the LF HO-M6R in this setup, but The MN61 appears slightly brighter than the HO-M6R when driven by 3x17670s.

Am I playing with a timebomb waiting to :poof: running the 12v Surefire lamps with 3x17670s?


Advising beginning:

firstly: Using unprotected cells in series is a no-no unless you are willing to test cells very frequently. This type of set up is likely to produce a very heavily discharged or reverse charged cell if not monitored very closely.

Typical 17500s are rated 1000-1100mAH capacity and are rated to safely deliver ~1.5-2A continuous discharge depending on the brand.

The MN61 is designed to run at about [email protected], you are pushing it it at about [email protected]. It is designed to have about a 30 hour life at 9V, it will have somewhere in the ballpark of 2 to 6 hours life in your current configuration. Premature failure is probable. Notice that at 2.8A, you are way over the safe limit for 17500 cells. Combine that with the fact you are using unprotected cells and you could say I am a bit concerned.
 
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Re: SF MN60 & MN61 on 3x17670s

Hi Fusion M8
Kind of an old thread here, hehe... oh well, this works :)


Lots of people have run the MN60 and MN61 on 6xRCR123 in a M6 and 3x17670 in the M6, I'm sure a few have done the same in an M4 with extensions, (shouldn't make much if any difference)...

The MN60 would normally run a little under 10V on 4 CR123 primary cells. I would suspect you'd get almost as high as 12V on freshly charged li-ion cells. (maybe more like 11.5V). Bulb life will suffer, highest chance of premature failure will be on fresh-from-the-charger cells, but since li-ion tapers off through the run some, the overall average voltage isn't as bad as 11.5V, maybe more like 10.5V, I'd estimate that typical bulb life would be reduced to somewhere around 5-15 hours on. With increased risk of premature insta-flashing.

The MN61 normally runs around 8.8V-9V or so on 4 CR123 primaries, but could easily get hit with as high as 11V from a fresh set of 17670s, this is pretty substantial overdrive. I've said this before in other threads, on paper there is no reason that the MN61 should survive 3x17670s, but it often does for whatever reason. Many have reported premature failures, but many have had the MN61 survive this configuration in a worthwhile manner.

Eric
 
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