SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Up To 7.3A Now*

[Fulgeo]

Re: SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Beamshots*

I checked the SST-90 I have here and I got the same. Right around 4 amps connected to a 26650.

Mac

Mac or anyone else, has anyone tried direct driving the SST-90 with two of the batteryspace 26650 cells connected in parallel? I would be curious of the current draw. I would expect it would be higher since the voltage sage under load would be less. I would also be interested in connecting three of those cells in parallel since I have a love affair with 3D Mag lights.

 

[Techjunkie]

Re: SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Beamshots*

Mac or anyone else, has anyone tried direct driving the SST-90 with two of the batteryspace 26650 cells connected in parallel? I would be curious of the current draw. I would expect it would be higher since the voltage sage under load would be less. I would also be interested in connecting three of those cells in parallel since I have a love affair with 3D Mag lights.

Member moviles has demonstrated that only one of the batteryspace IMR26650 can drive the SST-90 at 10A in direct drive, using a DMM with heavy gauge wire. (In one of the other SST-90 threads). He still achieved 8A when the resistance of a PWM dimmer on full was introduced into the circuit. ElektroLumens noted in his Blaster TNG sales thread that 4 good NIMH C or D cells drove the SST-90 above 9A.

Battery sag isn't the only challenge. The resistance of the wire used can make all the difference in delivering/measuring current. The same is true even if you are measuring with a clamp meter. If you do have a clamp meter that can measure DC current and the torch is already fully assembld, then you can still use the clamp meter to take the measurement by using a piece of 18ga wire at the tail cap. You can clamp it using an aligator clip at the end of the battery tube, and use a magnet or just hold it with your fingers to the battery end. The important thing is to zero the meter with the wire in place before turning on the flashlight. I've compared a high quality DC clamp meter to a very cheap (DX) DMM with 16ga leads and achieved the same results under an 8+ Amp load.

I thought I posted this here before, but now I realize that I make a mistake and posted it in BriteLumens heatsink sales thread. (Apologies to BriteLumens).:

I have some thoughts to share about the "amperage issue"...

For starters, the 4AH 26650 IMR cell has higher energy density AW's 26500 LiMn cell or the Sony 26650VT cell (LiNiCoMn) but I'm pretty sure it also has lower current capability than those two do. That is not to say that it is incapable of sustaining a constant 9A discharge rate, just that it does not have the headroom those other two batteries have. I'm purely guessing here, but it would stand to reason that at that current, it suffers more voltage drop than those two as well, which in turn, would make sustaining max current more unlikely with a single one of those cells than with either of the others.

Secondly, measuring that much amperage is tricky compared to usual LED territory. Toss out the wimpy leads that your DMM came with and replace them with something of a much heavier gauge. I replaced mine with 16ga speaker wire and gold banana plugs. Prior to doing that, my in-line DMM which is supposedly capable of measuring up to 20A DC would top out just north of 4A. After swapping the cables, the measurement taken by the in-line DMM matches that taken by a Fluke 337 true RMS clamp meter. Both now register ~8A draw from 3 MC-E all in parallel on 3 AccuPower LSD NiMH C cells.

Finally, a bit unrelated but sort of on the same theme of "amp-challenged", I'd love to see someone take the opposite approach and embrace resistance. I wonder if 8 enelloops in a FM 4p2s carrier would introduce just enough resistance between the internal resistance of the batteries and all the connections inside and outside the carrier, to cause just the right Vdrop to direct drive the SST-90 at 9A on an almost full charge. I got lucky in a similar fashion with 16 durallops in series powering 5 MC-E in series...

Unless a plug and play 9A constant current driver (single driver, not three in parallel) becomes available, then I'm considering a solution exactly as Fulgeo described, although in my version, it's three of AW's IMR26500 in a Mag 2D, wired all in parallel with the help of a custom PVC carrier that uses 16ga or 18ga wire in channels down the side. The only thing that has stopped me thus far is that I'm waiting for the warmer tint SST-90 to become available and more importantly, I'm waiting to see the "right" reflector or optic. On that note, I wonder how the 2D Mag LED reflector (deeper than incan) works. I'll bet it still doesn't focus well enough. (And it would likely melt at 9A.) If I already had all the other parts, I'd build one using the KD aspheric for now.

 

[ma_sha1]

Re: SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Beamshots*

The only thing that has stopped me thus far is that I'm waiting for the warmer tint SST-90 to become available...

FYI, the warmer tint is already available, I used 57K Neutral tint to finish my SST-90 build. If you go any warmer, then the lumen bin will drop.

In person, the 201 group of tint looks like DSVNJ bin of P7, jumbo hot spot is vanilla white. no hint of blue.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238232&page=2

 

[Techjunkie]

Re: SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Beamshots*

FYI, the warmer tint is already available, I used 57K Neutral tint to finish my SST-90 build. If you go any warmer, then the lumen bin will drop.

In person, the 201 group of tint looks like DSVNJ bin of P7, jumbo hot spot is vanilla white. no hint of blue.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238232&page=2

I was referring to the 4500k tint. I'm willing to sacrifice the lumens for the tint. I have quite a few netural tint MC-E lights that I think are probably around 5400-6000K and some warm white XRE that are probably around 3000-4000K but by far my favorite tint is a 5 XRE torch that I have 3 neutrals and 2 warms in and I'm hoping the 4500K tint SST-90 is a close match to that.

 

[kz1000s1]

Re: SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Beamshots*

I have no idea, my brother has my DMM. :sigh:

I'll ask Mac next time I talk to him if it would be worth the trouble.

I was actually wondering how the output compares visually between a single SST-50 light and a single P7.

 

[kz1000s1]

Re: SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Beamshots*

Member moviles has demonstrated that only one of the batteryspace IMR26650 can drive the SST-90 at 10A in direct drive, using a DMM with heavy gauge wire. (In one of the other SST-90 threads). He still achieved 8A when the resistance of a PWM dimmer on full was introduced into the circuit. ElektroLumens noted in his Blaster TNG sales thread that 4 good NIMH C or D cells drove the SST-90 above 9A.

Battery sag isn't the only challenge. The resistance of the wire used can make all the difference in delivering/measuring current. The same is true even if you are measuring with a clamp meter. If you do have a clamp meter that can measure DC current and the torch is already fully assembld, then you can still use the clamp meter to take the measurement by using a piece of 18ga wire at the tail cap. You can clamp it using an aligator clip at the end of the battery tube, and use a magnet or just hold it with your fingers to the battery end. The important thing is to zero the meter with the wire in place before turning on the flashlight. I've compared a high quality DC clamp meter to a very cheap (DX) DMM with 16ga leads and achieved the same results under an 8+ Amp load.

I thought I posted this here before, but now I realize that I make a mistake and posted it in BriteLumens heatsink sales thread. (Apologies to BriteLumens).:



Unless a plug and play 9A constant current driver (single driver, not three in parallel) becomes available, then I'm considering a solution exactly as Fulgeo described, although in my version, it's three of AW's IMR26500 in a Mag 2D, wired all in parallel with the help of a custom PVC carrier that uses 16ga or 18ga wire in channels down the side. The only thing that has stopped me thus far is that I'm waiting for the warmer tint SST-90 to become available and more importantly, I'm waiting to see the "right" reflector or optic. On that note, I wonder how the 2D Mag LED reflector (deeper than incan) works. I'll bet it still doesn't focus well enough. (And it would likely melt at 9A.) If I already had all the other parts, I'd build one using the KD aspheric for now.

I personally have been a bit skeptical about moviles test results. He had some readings on other lights that were also completely inconsistent with others results. Using thick wires with my meter made no difference in the readings for me.

However, I do have to say that there may be some large variations in vf between samples of the SST-90.

We also don't really know what the maximum rated vf is! There is nothing said in the spec sheet. It just is assumed that because the vf versus amperage chart stops at 3.7V and the test value at 9A is 3.6V that is what the vf is. Luminus doesn't bin for vf like SSC does for P7's either.
I'm running at up to 5.6V (no load) with no indications of overvoltage.

 

[Isthereanybodyoutthere]

Hey i have been away for some time ,and now this :huh:
big Q`s

about accurate meters

if i take the LED i want to use ,hock it up to a lap power supply
That way check the fv of the led at different ampere

make notes of that

then could i not get away with a cheap volt meter to see how much amp the led gets when installed in the light

I of course have to be able to measure the volt over the led

then maybe use a constant voltage regulating control the amps

next ,,have some tested these with a aspheric

i want to build a light to get some light way out there ,,but ONLY out there ,,no spill to blind me

last where to get these leds and how much$$

 

[Techjunkie]

Re: SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Beamshots*

I personally have been a bit skeptical about moviles test results. He had some readings on other lights that were also completely inconsistent with others results. Using thick wires with my meter made no difference in the readings for me.

However, I do have to say that there may be some large variations in vf between samples of the SST-90.

We also don't really know what the maximum rated vf is! There is nothing said in the spec sheet. It just is assumed that because the vf versus amperage chart stops at 3.7V and the test value at 9A is 3.6V that is what the vf is. Luminus doesn't bin for vf like SSC does for P7's either.
I'm running at up to 5.6V (no load) with no indications of overvoltage.

Dave,

Using heavier gauge wires in my DMM made a very big difference for me. In my case, the thin leads were a source of resistance that was causing current to drop. It is entirely possible that some DMMs may themselves be a source of resistance, regardless of the gauge of their leads. In that case, the DMM just isn't suited for measuring higher currents, despite its claims.

Energizer 2500mAh cells have very high internal resistance compared to better NiMH cells and sag A LOT under high current load. They may have an open pack voltage of 5.6v hot off the charger, but I guarantee that under the load of the SST-90 that they're sagging to <1v per cell. Those cells probably just can't deliver 9 amps at all, even hot off the charger.

Compare those to Titanium1800 NiMH cells that can provide 18A current, have very little internal resistance and sag far less, and you will see entirely different results. Four D sized Accupower 10AH NiMH cells in a very low resistance setup would probably overdrive the SST-90 unless they were somewhat conditioned/discharged in advance.

The SST-90 introduces all the toughest challenges of high power LEDs AND high powered hotwires.

 

[kz1000s1]

Re: SST-90 (Super Sonic Transmitter) Maglite Build *Beamshots*

Dave,

Using heavier gauge wires in my DMM made a very big difference for me. In my case, the thin leads were a source of resistance that was causing current to drop. It is entirely possible that some DMMs may themselves be a source of resistance, regardless of the gauge of their leads. In that case, the DMM just isn't suited for measuring higher currents, despite its claims.

Energizer 2500mAh cells have very high internal resistance compared to better NiMH cells and sag A LOT under high current load. They may have an open pack voltage of 5.6v hot off the charger, but I guarantee that under the load of the SST-90 that they're sagging to <1v per cell. Those cells probably just can't deliver 9 amps at all, even hot off the charger.

Compare those to Titanium1800 NiMH cells that can provide 18A current, have very little internal resistance and sag far less, and you will see entirely different results. Four D sized Accupower 10AH NiMH cells in a very low resistance setup would probably overdrive the SST-90 unless they were somewhat conditioned/discharged in advance.

The SST-90 introduces all the toughest challenges of high power LEDs AND high powered hotwires.

My meter is a Craftsman that has 18g leads.

I have no doubt it better cells could have higher amperage. So far though these seem to be able to sustain their power for some time. I don't have any more money for further experiments.

Here are my battery results to date:

3 x Energizer 2500 mAh C NiMh cells = 3.2A

AW IMR18650 = 4.6A
After 6 minutes 2.4A, standing voltage 3.72V, down from 4.2V fully charged

Batteryspace IMR26650 (4.2V) = 4.2 amps
6 minute run., starting amps 4.06, 4.2V. At the end, 3.6A 4.06V

3 x 10,000mAh Powerizer D cell = 3.96A (I didn't write this result down, this was from memory)

Installed D2Flex V2.0, Batteryspace IMR26650 (4.2V) = 4.25 amps

4 x Energizer 2500 mAh C NiMh. 5.6V off the charger = 7.3A


I would be interested in the results from parallel 26650's. Someone did try 4 18650's some time ago with good results.

 

[Techjunkie]

I anticipate someone building an SST-90 with an Ele-II, 4P IMR18650, and an FM 3" head. Who knows, maybe FiveMega will do it him self.

 

[ifowler]

Can you damage the SST-90's with 11 amps??? I have a SST-90 and it has small black dot in the led array. Is this normal or are some of the led diode blow out?


Ian

 

[kz1000s1]

I think there is someone running one at that level, but I haven't. There is always a risk when you push the limits though.

It isn't normal to have a black dot on the die, the yellow square from what I've seen.

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

Nailbender just built me a 2D mag (HA III Britelumens finned) running two sharks pushing almost 6A to the emitter, I'm running it on two Batt Space 26650's.

It pushes over 1000 OTF lumens. Has nice throw too!

I'm happy w it. :devil:

 

[kz1000s1]

Nailbender just built me a 2D mag (HA III Britelumens finned) running two sharks pushing almost 6A to the emitter, I'm running it on two Batt Space 26650's.

It pushes over 1000 OTF lumens. Has nice throw too!

I'm happy w it. :devil:

Sounds great! What reflector does it have?
Was that output measured with his sphere?
My estimate derived from the data sheet for mine was
1300+ emitter so probably 1000+ OTF.

I know it's a significant increase over my P7 mag.
I have to be careful when I go for a walk at night and
turn it on high level that no one is walking towards me
on the sidewalk so I don't burn their eyes out.

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

It has a MOP Al reflector, and it also has Mac's heatsink, with LEDzep's shark cage. I call it my All Star Mag. I find the low level perfect, its about 400 lumens.

High is just rediculous, and Dave did measure it in his sphere. once the batts settle a bit its in the 900-950 Lumen range. But Dave said he was being conservative on that. All I know is its bright, I love it. :wave:

 

[kz1000s1]

High is just ridiculous :wave:

And if anyone knows what ridiculously bright is, it's you!

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

And if anyone knows what ridiculously bright is, it's you!

You must be talking about Ellie w 4 x P7, now thats just silly.

 

[Techjunkie]

Mac or anyone else, has anyone tried direct driving the SST-90 with two of the batteryspace 26650 cells connected in parallel? I would be curious of the current draw. I would expect it would be higher since the voltage sage under load would be less. I would also be interested in connecting three of those cells in parallel since I have a love affair with 3D Mag lights.

I'm about to. I just slapped together a 2P 26650 carrier to fit into a 2D Mag. The emitter arrives on Jan 6 and Jo's heatsink came in last week, so this build is almost complete, although I haven't settled on a reflector yet.







Also, sort of on the topic of direct drive and what certain batteries are capable of, check out this 3X neutral MC-E powered by a single IMR26500. I'm pulling 8.9A at the tail. A bit of an overdrive, considering 2.8A x 3 = 8.4A.

 

[Fulgeo]

Interesting! Techjunkie could you describe what brand of 26650 cells you have there and where you purchased them?

 

[Techjunkie]

Interesting! Techjunkie could you describe what brand of 26650 cells you have there and where you purchased them?

They're SONY 26650VT. I read about them here (and here) and bought 8 of them loose on eBay for a song. Wish I bought more.

The two of them in parallel pushed my 4500K SST-90 to 8 amps. I'm pretty sure my chip is pretty high Vf. On four NiMH C cells it shot up to 11 amps in the split second before I broke the connection.

:EDIT:

After resistance reduction (mainly through use of deoxit) and some aggressive burn-in of the SST-90, I can no longer safely direct drive it from the 2P 26650 pack. Even at 4.0V open, it pulls ~14A. On the up side, I'm now seeing a 10A pull when directly driven from only 3 NiMH C cells. Burn-in effects thread here. Build thread here.