Undisciplined, spoiled brat teenagers...

[Bradlee]

True enough, xochi.

 

[_mike_]

Jumpmaster, in some cases your simply fighting an uphill battle with some of these kids. What you are telling them to do is foreign to them. I'm not saying to be understanding or go easy on them, just understand that it's a different world from where we came from. They NEED what you are puting them through, keep going. They enlisted, and now don't want you "hassling" them. Interesting isn't it?

In any case it's a complicated issue, with no single or easy answer. Show me an undisciplined young person and some possible causes could be (but not limited to):

1) Parents who don't parent, want to be their kids friend rather than their parent, coddle too much, make excuses and live in denial that their kid is or has a problem, parent/parents are passive and let the kid abuse them, work too much, are abusive, single, selfish, not around, spoil the child, a mix of all of the above, etc, etc, etc.
2) Long history of never teaching the child accountability and responsibility.
3) Continually being rewarded for poor behavior.
4) Luck of the draw and the kid is just a dud of a human being.
5) Schools that pass failing students just to get them out of their school.
6) Under funded, under staffed after school and other programs such as: drug prevention, tutoring, mentoring, adult supervised activities.
7) Lack of community support in both dollars and volunteers for the above mentioned programs.

Good luck to you, I know it's not easy. But thanks for doing the job.

 

[jtr1962]

Personally, I believe that pop culture and the amount of time that people spend wallowing in unrealistic, marketing inspired bullshi* is the prime culprit. I also wouldn't limit this to just young people but everyone who spends more than 20 minutes a week subjecting themselves to the messages whose prime goal is manipulation of our hearts and minds. When our society is engineered by individuals with profit as their prime motivation we shouldn't be surprised when we turn out individuals who are massively self involved and undisciplined. Fortunately there are still alot of people who recognize the situation and make an effort to avoid compromising core values for the sake of 'fitting in' .

Truer words were never spoken. My thoughts exactly. I personally try to avoid as much exposure to pop culture as possible. In the end it just warps your values. I don't care if I'm up on the latest trends or not. It's really sad that all schools and society are doing is preparing children to be the next generation of consumers.

 

[bexteck]

As a 19 year old college student I definitely have seen my share of "Undisciplined, spoiled brat teenagers". IMHO the cause of this is a lack of parenting from a very young age. I was raised in a very conservative home, and am better off because of it. I was taught to respect my elders, and what is and what is not appropreate behavior. Most of the things I see these people do have never crossed my mind before, they just aren't an option.

On the military note, I have been a boy scout since 2nd grade, and I realize that the things our leaders made us do during training had a purpose, just as the development of disipline in basic training is done for a reason. I do have a good idea of what is appropreate for a superior to ask of me, and figured out a long time ago that all the whining and complaining is a waste of everyone's time, and it is far better to do what is asked of me without questioning it.

I think that if every young person had to go through an experience similar to basic training, we would have a much better behaved and much more useful generation of young people. It also might help America's growing waistline as well.

If I could spare the time, I would definitely go to boot camp or basic training even though I am not planning to enter the military. Unfortunately, engineering is a harsh mistriss and I barely have enough time for sleep as it is.

 

[mccavazos]

I too am a 19 year old engineering student. The majority of my peers seem to fot the exact description that the title of this thread....but not all of them. What I don't understand is why older people hate undisiplined kids so much whne there are tons and tons of undisiplined adults out there as well. I have come across many older people that are unbelivably rude. I was at Fry's on saturday looking at the thumb drives when an elderly man walked up an mentioned under his breath that he was looking for the $20 512MB thumbdrive that they had on sale. I found it and handed it to him. He took ot very curtly, and asked how he was suppossed to get the rebate. I told him very nicely that he would get it at the checkout counter. He walked away saying "Damn kids won't mind their own buisness." under his breath. I would like to know where this hostility comes from. I too cannot tolerate undisiplined teens, but I neither can I tolerate adults of the same type. Just a quick note: this is not directed at ANYONE on this forum, you have all been very nice and very helpful when I have needed it , and I have tried to be the same way back. I just would like to know why there is such hostility between adults and younger people, when there is an equal amount of disrespect on both sides. :shrug:

Chris

 

[Jumpmaster]

What I don't understand is why older people hate undisiplined kids so much whne there are tons and tons of undisiplined adults out there as well.

Right...so...let's have a thought exercise -- how do you think the "tons and tons of undisciplined adults" got that way?? Do you think they were fine until they turned 18 and then turned into a rude, arrogant sacks of horsesh#$ right there on the spot? No...they started out as undisciplined children.

THAT'S why I hate undisciplined teens...one day, I may find myself on the battlefield with one of them (now, the undisciplined adult) and they could get people killed. One can only hope that basic training will scare some sense into them...I was hoping that, but then I got to AIT and they were all back to their same "back on the block with my 40oz" mentality...trying to get away with whatever they could...pushing the rules...testing authority. The drill sergeants were about 100 times more strict on demanding respect at AIT -- they had to be because of those people testing them constantly.

Funny story...the recruiters told me they would get letters back from their recruits saying the drill sergeants were telling them they would ALL be deployed sooner or later...scaring them silly! They (the recruiters) were saying this to me in disbelief. I said, "And? It's true, Sergeant...they will be deployed..." I can't lie and tell them they won't...basic training will at least be a wakeup call in that respect. They told us this often and told of stories they'd seen...pretty graphic ones that I won't repeat here -- in order to let the less-serious among us know that this is no game and it ain't about the bonuses and college money.

JM-99

 

[Malpaso]

I had Catholic nuns as teachers, starting with kindergarten. I would have preferred a DI instead. Corporal punishement was a given, and somehow my parents knew what I'd done before I even got off the bus going home. Then they doubled the punishment, unlike now when the parents would sue the school system.

 

[jtr1962]

I had Catholic nuns as teachers, starting with kindergarten. I would have preferred a DI instead. Corporal punishement was a given, and somehow my parents knew what I'd done before I even got off the bus going home. Then they doubled the punishment, unlike now when the parents would sue the school system.

My mom went to a Catholic school taught by nuns. Being rapped on the knuckles with a ruler was quite common from what I understand. Also, we she came home and complained to her mother that the teacher hit her or yelled at her, her mother replied "Good, you probably did something to deserve it". You're right, nowadays the parents would probably sue the school. I don't see corporal punishment as a panacea, but used sparingly it works where all else fails.

 

[Sinjz]

I'm right in that age category you're describing, and I feel the same way. , although I find it's usually only a select few who have no respect. Sadly, without *real* punishment (read spanking, physical repremendation) I don't think the next generation will grow up to be any better.

I think the real problem is in this new philosophy that a child should be punished by taking away certain privillages. Although I realize that this can sometimes work, I remember quite clearly my fellow students (when I was in elementry school) being sent to their rooms when they were bad. The problem - their rooms had TV's, Computers, Game systems, etc. Kids just don't seem to be facing real consequences for doing bad things these days, and as a result they grow up without learning from their mistakes; they still show disrespect, etc, that should have been *beaten out* when they were young. :shrug:

-Brad

:whoopin:

 

[Icebreak]

mccavazos -

What an exquisite question. It transcends this thread, yet is completely applicable. I've some immediate responses to it but want to reflect before considering responding. I just thought it was important to point out the high value of the question.

JM-66 -

Some of my buds returned from foreign deployment as Guardsmen a little while back. A few were in command postions. Some of the things they told me...

Thank you for your service.

------------------

- Jeff

 

[Sinjz]

To answer mccavazos's question very simply.

I can say and do things to adults I can not to someone else' child. Look at a kid cross-eyed and thier parents will sue you for abusing thier child and want millions.

 

[Icebreak]

Trying to remember. When I was sixteen I'm at a parts counter at a big VW dealership. Total stinky ******* with box-o-parts slides laterally though two lines of customers and physically jacks my young butt out of his way. I was po'ed at him for doing it and felt powerless to whip him for doing it. Can't whip an adult, right? I remember being more po'ed at the dude behind the counter for acknowledging the ******* and discounting my existence than I was at the stinky *******.

Maybe from the teenager's point a view it can be rights/responsibility thing. They are given heavy responsibilities but receive a disproportionate amount of rights.

 

[tvodrd]

USMC induction, c1967: Outta the bus, feet on the painted yellow footprints on the pavement, prior to being run through the #0 buzz haircut. Into a large room to box-up everything including your wristwatch, and have it shipped home at your expense. Into a line for getting "issued" some boots, a yellow sweatshirt and some "utiility" trousers that sorta fit. Next, meet your DIs/"mothers" for the next 3 months! Zero sleep the first night! It was all downhill from there!

It serves a purpose- You realize what can be tolerated and some personal disicipline you either didn't know you had, or learned rather quickly! Those who failed to learn paaid!

You get taught stuff that, ultimately, improves the chances of survival for yourself and friends in mortal combat.

Things have changed today, and we didn't have the "crucible." I have no doubt that basic training today is as good as it was then! (Political correctness aside!)

Larry

 

[mccavazos]

To answer mccavazos's question very simply.

I can say and do things to adults I can not to someone else' child. Look at a kid cross-eyed and thier parents will sue you for abusing thier child and want millions.

Hahaha thats great and true. :laughing:
Too bad though, in most cases.

Anyway, just a few more comments. We went to the rainforest cafe for a friend of mines brithday. Me and two other friends (his brothers) arrived there 10 minutes before him and his parents. His parents had instructed us to get our reserved table so that we would meet the time of the reservation. THey told us that we could not be seated because there was only three of us, and the reservation was for eight. This is total BS, they only said that because we looked like a bunch of kids (I suffer from baby face syndrome (19 and still no facial har)) . I realize that I am only 19 and do not have the experience and wisdon of the older folk, but I see myself as an adult, and I try my best to get peoples respect. Anyway, when his parents arrived the three of them went up without us, to the same guy and were seated. It happens all of the time to us, trying to take stuff back to Best Buy, they told me that they could not accept it without a reciept even thoigh it was still in the original packaging and in the shrink wrap with their price sticker on it. They even tried to tell me that it wasn't the shrink wrap that they used, and I had bought it there myself. My dad went up their to the same register and had store credit in 5 minutes, when I had spent 3 hours arguing with the guy earlier that day. Off rant for now: I think that the majority of these bratty disrespectful kids, are just that. But there are probably many of them that are just treated like crap by people that assume that they are all that way. Now this is in no way an exuse for that kind of behavior, but it is a probable cause. I am honostly tired of being treated like I am a punk-a**hole kid, when I have done nothing to deserve that. I honostly try to help people when I can. Sorry for changing topic, I just felt the need for a vent.

 

[offroadcmpr]

I think the parents have a lot to do with it. I grew up in a relatively wealthy neighborhood where kids were really spoiled. It wasn't uncommon for a parent to buy his sone or daughter a new BMW or mercedes when they turned 16. When they crashed it, some of them would get a new one! Or the girl that started crying because her parents bought here a white new ford explorer instead of a silver one! It drove me nuts. None of them would take responsibility for themselves.

Another big problem is that they will in no ways admit that they are wrong. Their idea of a good teacher is one that has no regards for the rules. If a teacher enforces school rules in class, he is considered the worse teacher they have and start cussing him or her out. Even when they are acting up in class, doing things that they are not supposed to be doing and get caught. "I didn't do anything and my teacher gave me detention" They think that they did nothing wrong, and the teacher is horrible for doing that to them.

Or I hate how some people could not be quiet if their life depended on it. They go over their limit on their cell phone, which had hundreds of minutes to start out with. When the teacher is trying to get everyone to quiet down in class, it just does not seem possible for them to shut their mouth for two minutes!

I think a lot of them are in for a real shock when they live on their own. One of my teachers used to really upset some of the people in our class my doing a little project. They would tell him what they wanted to do when they were done with school. He would then find out the average salary and determine that with expenses, they would not even be able to live in our city, even in the cheapest apartments, let alone eating out every day, having a closet full of $180 pairs of designer jeans and so on.

I think there are a lot of people that could use a good boot camp to make them realize that they are not the center of the universe.

Sorry for the ran
(by the way I am 18)

 

[KevinL]

Some good points made by all.

I agree with the two posts above mine that it's hard to live in a world and play nice when your kind is stereotyped because others are tarring you with that brush.

I think what Jarhead/Newbie (far from a newbie actually) is trying to say is that while on their end, they need to wake up their idea, we need to find new ways of engaging them. I've looked at what I do and I realize part of my frustration comes from not being able to engage these people and help them to see the light. Many times it isn't a fair exchange, we do the legwork to help them, but in the long run it achieves the results we are after. I respect you, because when you had every right to give it to them the hard way, you chose not to - that would have been the easier way - but you found a much better way, something not many others can do, myself included.

 

[newo]

I The vast majority of the 17-21 year-olds I was in training with were just the most undisciplined, spoiled brats you've ever seen -- but that was corrected during the first week or so of basic.
JM-99

JM - I spent a number of years earlier in life as an active duty, regular officer JAG, much of it overseas. I tried, as prosecution or defense counsel, approximately 300 courts-martial, and more administrative discharge boards than I can count. In short, for part of my professional life I dealt with some of the system's "failures" - or at least those whose stupidity and lack of discipline didn't get them killed or crippled, that is. And these were people who had survived basic, and whatever other follow-on training their career field dictated.

Based on that experience, I have a couple of observations.

The purpose of basic training is to take undisciplined boys, turn them into men, and then turn those men into disciplined soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen.

It is done in the way that it is because history has shown us that this is what works. And until such time as the little villains that you are babysitting are subjected to that process, you are stuck with a bunch of undisciplined boys. (Probably some girls, too, who frequently are worse.) Expecting these children to behave, and comport themselves, like disciplined troops is, therefore, expecting too much.

You have for whatever reason been condemned, for the time being, to serve in the role of herding turkeys, and it would probably help to think of it that way. Helping get your miscreants into better physical shape before they go to basic is probably going to be the best, and most constructive, thing that you can do to, and for, them at this point. And it will keep them occupied.

Try to not let this make you crazy. This period shall pass, and better duty no doubt awaits you down the road.

Think of all of this as paying your dues. Good luck.

And thank you for your service.

 

[Sinjz]

Hahaha thats great and true. :laughing:
Too bad though, in most cases.

Anyway, just a few more comments. We went to the rainforest cafe for a friend of mines brithday. Me and two other friends (his brothers) arrived there 10 minutes before him and his parents. His parents had instructed us to get our reserved table so that we would meet the time of the reservation. THey told us that we could not be seated because there was only three of us, and the reservation was for eight. This is total BS, they only said that because we looked like a bunch of kids (I suffer from baby face syndrome (19 and still no facial har)) . I realize that I am only 19 and do not have the experience and wisdon of the older folk, but I see myself as an adult, and I try my best to get peoples respect. Anyway, when his parents arrived the three of them went up without us, to the same guy and were seated. It happens all of the time to us, trying to take stuff back to Best Buy, they told me that they could not accept it without a reciept even thoigh it was still in the original packaging and in the shrink wrap with their price sticker on it. They even tried to tell me that it wasn't the shrink wrap that they used, and I had bought it there myself. My dad went up their to the same register and had store credit in 5 minutes, when I had spent 3 hours arguing with the guy earlier that day. Off rant for now: I think that the majority of these bratty disrespectful kids, are just that. But there are probably many of them that are just treated like crap by people that assume that they are all that way. Now this is in no way an exuse for that kind of behavior, but it is a probable cause. I am honostly tired of being treated like I am a punk-a**hole kid, when I have done nothing to deserve that. I honostly try to help people when I can. Sorry for changing topic, I just felt the need for a vent.

Well for the resturant, its common not to seat you unless your whole party is there (or at least the large majority of it), especially if it's a busy resturant. Are you sure the parents didn't give the same last name and the hostess didn't recognize that name and knew several people of that party were already here? Even if they were being dumb, I would think it has more with weather or not you look like you can put down a nice tip than if you were a kid or not. I suspect if Hillary Duff walked in, instant table. If a 50 y/o bum walked it, he'll get escorted out. Obvious extremes examples, but I think you may be taking slight where there may not be any. Not for the reasons you think anyway. How were you dressed? As for the Best Buy example, you're not suppose to be able to return stuff without a receipt. I bet your father just overwhelmed the guy with logic like how the BB sticker was still on it. I doubt he got all pissy or bratty with the guy. How do they know you didn't just grab it off the shelf and took it up to the customer service desk for a return? Again how were you dressed? Of course customer service at these type of stores usually suck regardless....

I think it all comes down to what bradlee said; There are no consequences for most of these kids. They get away with being stupid, so they stay stupid.

Anybody remember that story, I think a year ago, where some kid (8 y/o?) was being disruptive in school , even hitting and spitting on a teacher. She was so unruly and uncontrollable , the cops were called. The cops come in and put the kid in handcuff to keep her from hitting people while they figure out what's going on. The parents got the cops got fired. If she were an adult going crazy in school, the cops could of thrown her down and hog tied her and the teacher could of sued her for assault....

 

[mobile1]

When I was young we never wore helmets when riding a bike or skiing, we simply just were kids. Today things are a bit over protected to my opinion... and as a result you end up with kids like that.

 

[mccavazos]

Well for the resturant, its common not to seat you unless your whole party is there (or at least the large majority of it), especially if it's a busy resturant. Are you sure the parents didn't give the same last name and the hostess didn't recognize that name and knew several people of that party were already here? Even if they were being dumb, I would think it has more with weather or not you look like you can put down a nice tip than if you were a kid or not. I suspect if Hillary Duff walked in, instant table. If a 50 y/o bum walked it, he'll get escorted out. Obvious extremes examples, but I think you may be taking slight where there may not be any. Not for the reasons you think anyway. How were you dressed? As for the Best Buy example, you're not suppose to be able to return stuff without a receipt. I bet your father just overwhelmed the guy with logic like how the BB sticker was still on it. I doubt he got all pissy or bratty with the guy. How do they know you didn't just grab it off the shelf and took it up to the customer service desk for a return? Again how were you dressed? Of course customer service at these type of stores usually suck regardless....

I think it all comes down to what bradlee said; There are no consequences for most of these kids. They get away with being stupid, so they stay stupid.

Anybody remember that story, I think a year ago, where some kid (8 y/o?) was being disruptive in school , even hitting and spitting on a teacher. She was so unruly and uncontrollable , the cops were called. The cops come in and put the kid in handcuff to keep her from hitting people while they figure out what's going on. The parents got the cops got fired. If she were an adult going crazy in school, the cops could of thrown her down and hog tied her and the teacher could of sued her for assault....

THe resturant thing may have been that way, but We gave the name Deb, and they his Dad gave the last name. As for Best BUy, My dad didn't say anything other than he wanted to take it back. I had just come in town from college, and had to give apresntation, so I was in a nice shirt and slacks. When we walked in teh store the guy at teh door gave us a pink sticker that indicated that we had walked in with the software so as to be evidence that I did not steal it. At teh resturant I was just wearing khakis and a tshirt. I guess that I could be just over exagerating things in my head. Oh well. Thanks for the insight, and yess all return policies blow. Except for target, they have always been very nice to work with.

THanks,
Chris