Why Do People Think That HDS Built Lights For Tactical Operations?

[:)>]

I have a quick question to ask also... Why do so many people think that HDS lights were tactical lights or that they emerged to fill a role in tactical operations?

It is my recollection that Henry built lights to use in some of the most difficult locations on the planet... caves. HDS built a light that was described as the LE but it was a variant of the product line and not the basis for the product line.

I don't believe that the new HDS offering is meant to be a tactical light but rather a hard use flashlight. The stainless bezel might just be a very helpful thing if you drop the light when it is dark out and the light is off.

Am I mistaken?

 

[BBL]

Why do so many people think that HDS lights were tactical lights or that they emerged to fill a role in tactical operations?

As always, they respond to marketing - 'Tactical sells' so to say.

The HDS/Novatacs are great utility lights, but tactical is something else.

 

[CM]

Yes, "tactical sells" is a good synopsis. Tactical was a niche market that Surefire played so well in. Many companies recognized that there is money to be made when people (mainly LE, military and related fields) were willing to pay high $$ for lights that were high quality, bright, and small (in contrast to the 6D billy clubs that many cops carried). Now there is a huge number of companies that sell "tactical" products. I can almost see a market for "tactical" knickers

 

[Kiessling]

The answer is easy ... because their new light is in tactical black, of course

 

[cave dave]

Wasn't the reason HDS teamed up with Novatac was to produce the lights in large quantities for a military contract?

Seems pretty tactical.

 

[:)>]

I can almost see a market for "tactical" knickers

CM,

I am disappointed that you don't know about "tactical" knickers or about the tremendous benefits that are realized when they are deployed in tactical situations. :shakehead:nana:

I agree that the tactical label helps products to sell, but I don't recall seeing the HDS lights marketed as tactical.

Novatac and HDS are different companies and Novatac's decision was to build and market lights to first responders, police and military so I agree that the Novatac was marketed as a tactical light (120T for Tactical); Novatac aquired HDS but HDS is not Novatac.

HDS originated when the output of LED's was not nearly as powerful as it is today and these LED's could not produce what to many is a minimum amount of light necessary to work properly in a tactical situation. They incorporated a function called tactical momentary, but I don't believe that this alone shows a marketing of the product as tactical. I would like to see the advertisements of the HDS lights on the front of a handgun, rifle or shotgun or some advertisements of the HDS lights as being designed to work with a handgun using some new tactical grip.

The reason that I am saying this is because I believe that there has been a misunderstanding about HDS' intentions with their lights (past and present) due to the "tactical craze" that CM mentioned.

Nobody can confuse the Ti PD-S as a tactical light and nobody does as far as I know but the PD-S has a "tactical" momentary feature and a dead mans switch like the Surefire lights

 

[redledz]

Not that I ever thought about tactical vs utilitarian edc with either light, but with novatac, you had a "tactical" switch version, the military got their order first supposedly, and I recall seeing a pic of someone useing the 120 with their firearm. So I could see how 'tactical' becomes usable. And this just carried over to hds because of their history.

 

[Gaffle]

It is my recollection that Henry built lights to use in some of the most difficult locations on the planet... caves. HDS built a light that was described as the LE but it was a variant of the product line and not the basis for the product line.

I don't believe that the new HDS offering is meant to be a tactical light but rather a hard use flashlight. The stainless bezel might just be a very helpful thing if you drop the light when it is dark out and the light is off.

It sounds like a tough fail-proof light. I get the impression that the new HDS is all about longevity and ease of use.

When I first came to CPF I was a "tactical" kind of guy. I was assuming tactical meant "blind some kind of opponent". Wwweeelllllll, I have never used a light in a real "tactical" way. I know some of the CPF crowd can boast about using a light in a tactical situation, I'm just not one of them.

I have lost my tactical side. Maybe I have become more practical, dunno. I really like the idea of this light being so tough. I dig the clicky, but I know that a clicky can break, twisty is here to say (unless something REALLY bad happens...). I guess this light can stay in your pocket waiting for the day that the ultra-cool-multi-moded-tactical-light finally has a sissy *** problem with its clicky switch.

I like longevity these days.

I'm not saying that all clicky lights are crap, I'm just saying there is a much larger probability of a clicky light to fail than there is for a twisty light, switching wise. First glance of these models definitely did not give me a "tactical" thought, they did give me a "Oh snap its a twisty therefore it is in the 'Will never die' niche".

 

[xiaowenzu]

I have a quick question to ask also... Why do so many people think that HDS lights were tactical lights or that they emerged to fill a role in tactical operations?

The new HDS is not a tactical light because it's a twisty. Only their push button ones are. There are many subjectivities debated as to what is a tactical light?, but in general..All handheld Tactical lights must fulfill a few basic requirements.

1. It must be forward clicky operated with button protruding (eg. Surefire M3) - this enables the user to 'signal' with the light, which is very important as you often use the light for only fractions of a second. A forward clicky also makes no noise, which can give away one's position. And the protruding button (eg, Novatac 120T) can be easily activated even when using gloves. This requirement, naturally excludes most chinese lights, which are reverse clicky, and also the switch is recessed which is NOT suitable for tactical use - bad tactile feedback. (Eg, the Fenix lights)

2. It must be relatively lightweight (so no MAGLITES qualify as tactical)

3. And relatively bright (~80 Lumens +) but most tactical I've seen put out more than 250 lumens, eg the Surefire M series.

4. And finally, a sign of a Tactical light are ones that are actually used by the military, special agents. Eg Surefires, Novatac, Gladius, etc.

 

[Valpo Hawkeye]

2. It must be relatively lightweight (so no MAGLITES qualify as tactical)

3. And relatively bright (~80 Lumens +) but most tactical I've seen put out more than 250 lumens, eg the Surefire M series.

So you're calling an M6 tactical but rule out a Mag, a light LEO's have used for decades, because it's too heavy? :shakehead

 

[paulr]

So you're calling an M6 tactical but rule out a Mag, a light LEO's have used for decades, because it's too heavy? :shakehead

Duty light and tactical light aren't the same thing.

 

[xiaowenzu]

Duty light and tactical light aren't the same thing.

I agree. The side mounted switch of the MAGLITES precludes it from being used as a tactical light, even though it is a forward clicky.

A tactical light must have at least a Protruding, tail-cap mounted forward clicky mechanism. This prevents fumbling in the dark to find the switch - you know it's at the end of the light instantly.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Somebody please give the marketing departments a thesaurus. We need a new buzzword.

I can't think of a more meaningless word to describe a flashlight.
:thinking:

 

[mikeyx]

I just find that a clicky is much easier to use when I need my light in a hurry. For me, there is too much fumbling with a twisty. I'm willing to trade a slightly less reliable switch mechanism for more comfortable manipulation, especially since most of us carry a backup anyway.

Mike

 

[KeyGrip]

Goatizzle, I don't think you're mistaken at all. Lights designed around specific parameters will all end up looking similar eventually. In this case, lights designed for any type of hard use usually end up being grayish and having tailcap switches. I think it is the visual similarity to lights designed and marketed as "tactical" that made people assume the original EDC series were supposed to be tactical as well.

 

[Oddjob]

As it says on the HDS website, "The light that gets you home". To me it kind of says it all as to its use. It is meant to be a light that is useful versatile and will not let you down. Even Novatac had to come out with a T series tactical model because the P series buttons are not tactical. IMO Bombproof does not mean tactical. As for the twisty, I personllay have had no problems using any of my twisties one handed in quick deployment and I am not expecting to have any problems with the new HDS either.

 

[Patriot]

Somebody please give the marketing departments a thesaurus. We need a new buzzword.

I can't think of a more meaningless word to describe a flashlight.
:thinking:

It is very silly in a way. Of course it's one of those trendy short phrases now that everyone want's to be a part of. Surefire started it and everyone else is trying to get a piece of it. People like to buy the same or similar products that they see in the movies. Marketing really does a great job at what they do.

 

[Hans]

Of course it's one of those trendy short phrases now that everyone want's to be a part of. <snip> Marketing really does a great job at what they do.

Yep. And now people believe they need a light labelled "tactical" because their nightly raids on the fridge are tactical operations ...

Hans

 

[yaesumofo]

Practical vs tactical?

IMHO the definitions of both of these parameters are evolving.
For example look at the new LAPD Flashlight. The pelican unit. This light replaces the mag as a duty light. It has elements of a tactical and happens to be practical for a multi role unit.
IMHO this is the direction flashlights seem to be going in as evidenced by this very light.


Of the ARC 4, HDS EDC, Novatac EDC units None were truly functional Tactical flashlights. The Novatac 120 T was closer to the mark.
IMHO a tactical flashlight is not a single cell 3,5 inch long pocket flashlight.
For one thing it is too small and too easy to loose...as are the other above mentioned lights.

All of this is very subjective. What works for one guy Amy not even come close to working for another.

The root of this thread is about the new HDS Twisty. This is definitely NOT a tactical flashlight. So what? What it is is a real TANK of a light. It is designed to be heavy duty work horse which is a TOOL meant to be used and abused over a very love period of time.

When I look at the "new" Novatac and the slightly older HDS EDC on the surface a guy could say these are basically the same flashlight. They are not. They are similar looking.
IMHO the HDS EDC is some what more heavy duty than the Novatak.
The theme of durability which has been the hallmark of all of the projects which Henry has gone public with has been this durability factor. A common thread so to speak.

I said this in another thread but I really admire Henry for producing this new light. It is definitely a risky move (on the surface).
The CPF is not the only market which he serves. Just because the CPF masses aren't running after his new offering doesn't spell disaster for the HDS twisty.

I will buy one if for no other reason in order to have an example of the light in my collection. Recently I have been Doing my Novatac 120 and Mcgizmo Seoul flavored miser.
Both great lights... neither a tactical.

The best way to figure out if this light is going to work for you is to get your hands on one. Maybe somebody will organize a pass around. Failing that buy one. If you don't like it sell it.
First and foremost Have fun!!!
Yaesumofo

 

[cave dave]

Any idea how the new HDS twisty switch works? Is it like the leef springs / killroys at different heights like used in Miller mod lights? Or is it some sort of mechanical switch? If it is some sort of micro switch those can fail.

Twisties don't automatically mean reliable. There have been a number of bad twisty designs created.