[divelight] Need your opinions of 3 lights (Barbolight, Metalsub or Salvo)

[mrikkert]

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a new divelight, I've been snooping around for a while and made a choice between 3 brands/models.

I hope you guys can give me some cons/pros about these lights.

Barbolight U-09 (maybe the new model B-15)

Metalsub XL7.2

Salvo 10 Watt HID (I know it's not a LED but a salesman recommended it)

Can anyone make my choice easier? :naughty:

Cheers
Marcel

 

[Long John]

Hello mrikkert and welcome to CPF

Take a look to the Barbolight U-15.
It's very bright with a runtime of about 1,5 hours and dimming output afterwards.

You can carry spare cells for limitless usage and the light is more robust than any other light, not to speak from fragile HID's.
No follow-up costs for ballast and bulbs.

Best regards

____
Tom

 

[mrikkert]

High Long John,

thanks for the welcome

I know the U-15, that's why I have the B-15 in mind: 6 AA penlights with a runtime of 3 hours! If I add rechargeable batteries (2700 mAh, NiMH) the charging time would be just 15 minutes!

The only question I have: is the B-15 (or U-15) better than both other lights?

My dive-instructor has a hard time believing that... oo:

So the one thing I'm curious about would be underwaterpics of the B-15 (or U-15)

cheers
Marcel

 

[Long John]

Marcel, in my opinion the Barbolights are way better than HID's.
The difference between the B-15 and the U-15, beside the different cells,lenght and weight is, most important, the driving level of the Led's.
Due to the higher current, the U-15 is much brighter.
I can't recommend nimh's beside the Sanyo Eneloops (2000mAh), due to the high selfdischarge.
This wouldn't be a big problem by charging directly before your diving trips, but in long storage terms, I prefer the Eneloops.

The U-15 is brighter than common HID-lights up to about 15Watts.
In the 20Watt HID-range and higher, the HID's will be brighter, but with their typical disadvantages.

I recommend the U-15, it will be delivered with charger and 2 cells, add 2 extra cells, and you will be any times prepared to use the light (with full loaded cells).

Here is a nice video, you can see the light in action:

http://video.google.es/videoplay?docid=6961577961515470789&hl=es

Here are comparison shots between a 55Watt high-beam motorcycle lamp and a T-15 (same brightness as the U-15):

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2052580&postcount=16

Best regards

_____
Tom

 

[mrikkert]

John,

what about these batteries:
http://www.gpbatteries.com/html/products/rechargeable_hydride.html
(the 2700 mAh ones)

according to a customer who owns a B-15, with batteries like that he has a runtime over 3 hours! They are charged within 15 minutes.

The thing that concerns me with the U-15 batterypack : is it safe against deepdischarging? (or how do you call it?) I know the U-09 isn't safe, it says so in the manual. But then again: on the dutch webshop of Brabolight they say the U-15 is safe against such a thing...

I like the B-15 because of the penlights being used: widely available and charged within 15 minutes. Better than 2-3 hours
A con would be the brightness (like you said): B-15 has 600 lumen against 880 for the U-15. Is that difference very noticeable? (keep in mind: the lamp is being used underwater)

Cheers

 

[Long John]

Marcel, batteries are a different term, take a look into this forums, you'll find a lot of infos:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=9

There is a noticeable difference in output between the B-15 and the U-15, unless more underwater.
The LIR 18650 cells, used with the U-15, are protected cells, so they are protected against overcharging/underdischarging and shorts.

It's your decision, but I prefer the U-15 in which I have to mention, I'm not a diver.

Best regards

____
Tom

 

[mrikkert]

John,

thanks for all the info, boy do I have to read a lot more!

Good to know that the U-15 is protected, the only downside: it costs a 100 euros more than the B-15. But I checked the price of a charger + 12 batteries (2x 6, 6 in the lamp the other 6 as backup) and guess what... 102 euros!

So it doesn't matter anyway! To make a long topic short: the U-15 would be the one to get!

Cheers
Marcel

 

[Barbarin]

The batteries we are sending on the U-15's are no longer protected. We have discused a lot about that, but we found several reasons to, mostly related to the kind of user of that light.

1, Users: They are mostly professionals, or technical divers, who know how to take care of their equipment, and they do preffer to have a couple of ruined batteries than being left on the dark during the most difficult moment (in fact at the beggining some professionals asked us to remove that circuits

2, Reliability: The protection circuits do have some lack of reliability, especially when the batteries are exposed regularly to salt, fog, humidity... Our lights can stand an internal pressure higher than 40 ATM, and althought we have done several test, no one has ever exploded, and even the light is designed to allow gases to escape before you open the tailcap.

So what we do no is to explain it on the instructions.

Once locked is near impossible to switch on the light accidentally.

Regards,

Javier

PD: BTW, here is a very famous and experienced diver who really likes our lights... Jim Bowden. And some of his words "You can not imagine how pleased I am to see the technology in tek diving now. When I started cave exploration over 20 years ago we had to make almost everything. Lights and brightness and duration of burn were the biggest problem we had in those days. The HID lights helped when they were introduced but they were too fragile for the explorer where difficult access was often the case. Your light is good...very good"

 

[fasuto]

To make a long topic short: the U-15 would be the one to get!

You won't regret it. I have a U-15 and is a great light.
As said by Javier I prefer unprotected batteries for underwater, but you can swap it if you prefer protected ones. Also, for underwater use is very dificult to let them discharged, normally you recharge it after each dive, and with partial discharges charging time is less.

Regarding AA you cannot charge 6 batteries with only one charger in only 15 minutes

 

[mrikkert]

You won't regret it. I have a U-15 and is a great light.
As said by Javier I prefer unprotected batteries for underwater, but you can swap it if you prefer protected ones. Also, for underwater use is very dificult to let them discharged, normally you recharge it after each dive, and with partial discharges charging time is less.

Regarding AA you cannot charge 6 batteries with only one charger in only 15 minutes

@Fasuto: you're right, but with 6 as backup that wouldn't matter And even just with 6 it would take 30 minutes :laughing:
And you're right again with the recharging after each dive.

@Barbarin: yeah the instructions, the dutch ones for sure, still say they are protected. But even if the battery would die (even by my mistake), the costs for a new one is only 30 euros (here in the netherlands), so that would be 60 for the U-15. Far better than 150 euros for a Metalsub battery!

I think I made my choice even if I'm not a professional or technical diver

Cheers
Marcel

 

[mrikkert]

Guys,

according to the dutch Barbolightwebshop, the U-09 also has the new LEDS!
(Barbarin is that correct?)
So the lumen goes up to 720! (880 for the U-15)
Sidequestion: is 880 lumen overkill for diving?

New "problem" for me... does that extra 160 lumen justify the extra costs?
The U-09 is, in the Netherlands, 136 euro cheaper than the U-15!

The only difference would be the used battery and maybe the uses lens?
What's the difference between the Makrolon AR Polycarbonate (U-15) and the Makrolon GP Polycarbonate (U-09)

Hope to hear from you guys
Marcel

 

[Barbarin]

Guys,

according to the dutch Barbolightwebshop, the U-09 also has the new LEDS!
(Barbarin is that correct?)
So the lumen goes up to 720! (880 for the U-15)
Sidequestion: is 880 lumen overkill for diving?

New "problem" for me... does that extra 160 lumen justify the extra costs?
The U-09 is, in the Netherlands, 136 euro cheaper than the U-15!

The only difference would be the used battery and maybe the uses lens?
What's the difference between the Makrolon AR Polycarbonate (U-15) and the Makrolon GP Polycarbonate (U-09)

Hope to hear from you guys
Marcel

Hello Marcel,

U-15 has higher price than U-09, but is brighter, smaller, more confortable, lighter.It has also car charger, and Li-ION batteries have zero memory effect and very low self discharge. In addition you can use the K-15 canister, to have a 10 hour runtime. It's output is comparable to some 18 Watt HID, it is way superior to any quality 10-13 Watt HID.. is the light which is being used for Frank Vasseur, Jim Bowden, Sylvain Redoutey, Jason Mallinson... But 136,00 is 136,00 ....

Makrolon AR is Makrolon GP coated with anti-scratch.

Regards,

Javier López

 

[fasuto]

So the lumen goes up to 720! (880 for the U-15)

I belive the diference in output is greater. U-15 has 4 leds, U-09 only 3:
220x4=880 lm, 220x3=660lm
The U-15 is lighther and I think batteries are better and easy to mantain.

In other sites the price diference is not that great, I had found only about 80€ less for the U-09.

Not sure about the lens but I belive are the same, may be is a typo.

May be is to late, but you should take a look at the thread Long John mencioned

 

[mrikkert]

Thanks Javier,

you guys are making this very difficult for me! :devil:
I see all the advantages of the U-15.. but like you say: 136 euro is a decent amount of money...
The question that hasn't been answered yet: is 880 lumen overkill for a diver like me? (I dive twice a week, pure for sport/recreational)

@ Fasuto: I know that GB and I replied in it. Didn't like the batteries and the lamp though: it's getting to small to hold on

Cheers Marcel

 

[mrikkert]

Next Thursday I'll make a testdive with the U-15 :twothumbs
We'll take a Metalsub also (XHL 4500, http://www.metalsub.nl/eng/prod_1_1.asp) just to compare it to the U-15.

And now for all honesty: what are the drawbacks of the U-15?

 

[Barbarin]

Next Thursday I'll make a testdive with the U-15 :twothumbs
We'll take a Metalsub also (XHL 4500, http://www.metalsub.nl/eng/prod_1_1.asp) just to compare it to the U-15.

And now for all honesty: what are the drawbacks of the U-15?

I use to say that there isnot a perfect solution, everything has pros and cons, and pending on the kind of use it is going to have anything can be good or bad.

IMHO low power HID's are completely outdated. They are not reliable, it's life time is short, they are very expensive, and they are dimmer than a multi-led light while wasting much more power. They can not switched on and off rapidly... The only reason they are being sold is because behind any product there is a lot of investment, and probably a lot of stock. For sure, in a short time nobody will manufacture them

Drawbacks for U-15 is it's runtime, 90 minutes, which is enough for recreational diving, but not for technical. Any case if you go for technical you can upgrade you light with a K-15 umbilical system, and you can have more than 10 hours.

This Thursday Jason Mallinson have reached 4400 mts (3600 mt. after second sump) on Pozo Azul.(http://espeleosub.blogspot.com/2006/10/pozo-azul-nueva-topografia-el-plano.html) Twelve hours dive, -60 m., and he was using Barbolights as main light light (U-15 + K-15) and as Back-UP (B-04's).

Regards,

Javier

 

[mrikkert]

Barbarin,

I'll use the U-15 pure for recreational diving, so the 90 minutes (although the dutch website states it would 120 minutes for max. power) would be more than sufficient, and recharging wouldn't be a problem.

off topic: Did you read my PM with the question of the chargers warranty?

Cheers,
Marcel

 

[Gladius01]

After reading alot of this Barbolight U-15, it is a very interesting and where can I purchase this light? Please PM me with details where to get hold one of this. Regards.

 

[mrikkert]

well.... yesterday I made a nightdive with the U-15. My buddy had a Metalsub XHL4500 (50W halogen) as a comparison.

And to be honest the U-15 didn't do it for me. I hear you say: WTF?
Let me explain:

- the light, sure it's 880 lumen but the 4500 had way more penetration and groundcoverage and I didn't like the "white" light.

- the grip, to small for my taste, in combo with the low weight of the lamp you really have to "squeeze" your hand. Not relaxed diving.

- no variable lightpower, I found out yesterday that I want/need that option.

caution:: these are my personal opinions)

So I have to keep looking...

Cheers
Marcel

 

[Barbarin]

well.... yesterday I made a nightdive with the U-15. My buddy had a Metalsub XHL4500 (50W halogen) as a comparison.

And to be honest the U-15 didn't do it for me. I hear you say: WTF?
Let me explain:

- the light, sure it's 880 lumen but the 4500 had way more penetration and groundcoverage and I didn't like the "white" light.

- the grip, to small for my taste, in combo with the low weight of the lamp you really have to "squeeze" your hand. Not relaxed diving.

- no variable lightpower, I found out yesterday that I want/need that option.

caution:: these are my personal opinions)

So I have to keep looking...

Cheers
Marcel

Well, I can't do anything if you think that weight or size is too small.

Regardding the penetration I'm somewhat suprised. Cool lights have better penetration than halogen by far. This is because the absortion of water, which is really intense on warm colours. All our testing with lightmeters have showed it, and that is the reason we preffer cold lights (HID or LED) when cave diving on murky waters.

When looking at this graphic keep in mind that penetration is represented here on vertical according to sunlight direction, but filtering happens on any direction with portable sources, and the absortion index is similar.

Halogens are better for daytime dives not deep, photo, video . The reason is that they put out the wavelenghts that have been filtered by water, so instead of illuminating what you are doing is to enhance contrast. Was it a daytime dive, not too deep?

I never carry the light in my hand, instead I use a "goodman handle". This way you have both hands free, and you don't need to be squeezing.

You can se it with a U-04, but you can hold the U-15, K-15.

Dimming was used in the past as a solution for the really short runtimes of halogen lights, which were in real conditions (cold water) less than 30 minutes. With 90 minutes runtime it is better to keep it switched on all the dive, is my opinion.

Regards,

Javier

BTW, the charger does have warranty!