Feedback/impressions on the PhD-M6 custom battery pack

[LuxLuthor]

Well after playing with mine last night I just have a few thoughts.

MN21=:twothumbs

Why would there be any need to run any other lamp??

Two reasons come to mind $$$ & bulb life (I'm not sure what the rated spec life is or how much a soft starter extends it).

 

[wquiles]

This pack is a winner for the rechargeability, regulation, soft start, multiple bulb options and overall utility. Great job Will (and Eric)!

Yes, the MN21 is very hard on the cells, and as you found out, some cells have a more "sensitive" protection circuit than others, so that part is normal. The cells' protection circuitry basically sees the cold filament of the MN21 as a short circuit, so I am in fact playing a trick on the poor cells with my hybrid soft-start to get them to work with the MN21 :devil:

Thanks much for the great feedback

Well after playing with mine last night I just have a few thoughts.

MN21=:twothumbs

Why would there be any need to run any other lamp??

I understand 100%. No wonder most movies/shows in TV use the M6/MN21 combo - it is an awesome sight, specially coming from such a (relatively) small package. Everyone I show the M6 with the regulated MN21 has the same response - they can't stop the big smile :naughty:

Two reasons come to mind $$$ & bulb life (I'm not sure what the rated spec life is or how much a soft starter extends it).

Yes, there is always a trade-off. The best "compromise" so far seems to be the MN61 (@9.2V), which is what I keep on my own M6

 

[jtivat]

Two reasons come to mind $$$ & bulb life (I'm not sure what the rated spec life is or how much a soft starter extends it).

Ok after looking at that link do the new MN21's really look like that? Mine has a much larger glass tube around it. Is there any difference in the two?

Thanks

 

[wquiles]

Ok after looking at that link do the new MN21's really look like that? Mine has a much larger glass tube around it. Is there any difference in the two?

Thanks

You are right. That bulb is most definitely NOT the MN21 bulb. Whomever updated their website simply got the wrong image

 

[whitedoom34]

Ive had the pack for a couple days now, and I can say that I am very impressed. I originally ran a HO-M6R in my M6 with a run of the mill non-regulated pack. I tried this bulb first with my PhD pack, and I found that the PhD-M6 could not regulate this bulb for very long (as expected), but I did appreciate the soft start (easier on the batteries, longer, more reliable bulb life) and the moon mode at the end.

The soft start is very "nifty". I love how I can see it ramp up (in a good way). I also like the moon mode. I have only run the light for a couple of minutes in moon mode, although I do wonder how long it will sustain for (more testing needed!).

I have chosen to use the MN20 bulb for the best all-round performance, and through several sets of batteries, the regulation has been perfect. As my primary large work light, this PhD pack has made my M6 incandescent perfection

Thanks so much to everyone who made this project possible, and especially thanks to wquiles and mdocod.

 

[wquiles]

Thanks for the feedback, and you are welcome

 

[jdriller]

I have been using the MN61 at 9.3v. I too, am very happy! This is the ultimate pack for the M6. Nice to be able to use so many different bulbs. Hey, Will. Can you use a McClicky switch with the Phd? I have the adapter that replaces the stock switch with the click.
Thanks. This is great!

 

[wquiles]

I have been using the MN61 at 9.3v. I too, am very happy! This is the ultimate pack for the M6. Nice to be able to use so many different bulbs. Thanks. This is great!

You are welcome

Hey, Will. Can you use a McClicky switch with the Phd? I have the adapter that replaces the stock switch with the click.

You know, I have not tried as I don't own a clicky switch for the M6. However, the PhD-M6 pack does not know/care how the electrical path is closed (normally using the push button or closing the tailcap fully). So, since the Clicky switch just closes the electrical path between the pack's NEG and the tailcap/body of the light, it "should" work.

If you do try it, please let us know how it worked out

 

[jtivat]

What voltage should AW cell cut out at? I just did a run with an MN20 and after the pack shut down the cell voltage was 3.67, 3.5 and 3.1 that seems low??

 

[wquiles]

What voltage should AW cell cut out at? I just did a run with an MN20 and after the pack shut down the cell voltage was 3.67, 3.5 and 3.1 that seems low??

It varies somewhat as I have never seen the cells' protective circuit cut out at exactly the same place, but once cells get to around 3.5-3.6V and below, the cells are pretty much done. When I did my own MN20 discharge tests, I got my cells to be pretty much in the same range as yours. Here is another run on the MN20 and another run with the MN21 with similar results.

From those voltages that you listed, I would say that the 3.1v cell gave up first, but the one at 3.5 was awfully close to being done with as well. You will likely also note that if you take voltage measurements right away and then after the cells completely cool down/rest, that the resting voltage will be slightly higher. Either way, the cells do need re-charging when they get this low.

Will

 

[mdocod]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback! It's a great feeling to have worked on this project and see some happy faces as a result!

------------

What voltage should AW cell cut out at? I just did a run with an MN20 and after the pack shut down the cell voltage was 3.67, 3.5 and 3.1 that seems low??

Hi JT,

If you run the pack till shut-down, (all the way through moon mode), the final shut down will be triggered by one of the cells tripping it's low voltage protection. Under a load, that occurs at ~2.5V for a cell. When the load is removed, the cell will generally recover to between 3.0 and 3.5V open circuit.

Don't worry too much about the variation from cell to cell when they come out of the unit. it's normal to see wider swings in open circuit voltage on depleted cells because the difference between 2.5V and 3.5V is really only a few percent capacity.

In my beta/alpha/pre-production testing, if the cells were removed just after moon mode kicked in, I would get open circuit voltage measurements around ~3.65V on each cell. Different bulbs and conditions created different results.

Good rule of thumb: If you don't want 100% depleted cells, shut down when it trips over to moon mode as soon as possible.

Eric

 

[jtivat]

Thanks guys I was worried that the 3.1 was low. The cell did come up to 3.35 after a few minutes and then was back too 4.25 after charging overnight.

 

[Starlight]

I received my PhD-M6 today. I have to echo everyone's comments, the pack is first rate. I have just started playing around (testing) the pack and I have a question that I don't think has been asked. Can I recharge the batteries in the pack? That is, can I connect the pack to a charger and set it for 3 series Li-On. I'm not worried about balancing because I use a Schulze charger.

 

[wquiles]

I received my PhD-M6 today. I have to echo everyone's comments, the pack is first rate.

Thanks

I have just started playing around (testing) the pack and I have a question that I don't think has been asked. Can I recharge the batteries in the pack? That is, can I connect the pack to a charger and set it for 3 series Li-On.

Remember from my recent dialog with Stephen that there is no electrical connection between the packs' NEG side and the cells' NEG side. As such, please do not connect the pack to any charger.

The cells must "always" be removed from the battery carrier for the cells to be charged.

 

[jtivat]

Stop the presses I found a major problem with the pack!!!

It makes me want to play with different lamp options so much that I dropped an MN20 while changing lamps!!!

 

[wquiles]

It makes me want to play with different lamp options so much that I dropped an MN20 while changing lamps!!!

Ahh man, sorry to hear that :mecry:

If it makes you feel any better: While testing various settings with the MN21, I put the pack in my programming fixture, made the changes, and when to test the MN21 again. Problem was that I "forgot" to change the switches back to 6.8V. The were set to 10.8V - no amount of soft-start could help my poor bulb :mecry:

 

[LuxLuthor]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback! It's a great feeling to have worked on this project and see some happy faces as a result!

I don't want to "Jinx" you, but as far as I can tell the feedback thus far is 100% positive.

 

[wquiles]

Except for 1-2 packs, I am done with the sale of the packs at the introductory pricing, and as such, I will be closing that sales thread, and opening a new sales thread for the PhD-M6 at the regular price in the next day or so.

The new sales thread for the PhD-M6 will have three notable differences:
1) Pricing now includes all Paypal fees.
Yes, I messed up in the original sales thread. Being my first for this type of sales thread I though there would be a way to make payments via Paypal without fees, but it proved not only impossible, but incredibly confusing for all of us, so my apologies for that. I will be paying all Paypal fees.

2) Pricing now includes custom values.
There will no longer be any need to pay any additional for custom values. My initial expectation was that few would order custom values, and I was just plain wrong - most ordered custom values. The net of it was that the "default" set was the least selected set of values, so I had to re-program most all of the packs anyway. Since that seems the preference (to order custom values) I will no longer charge anything extra for custom values. You can order the pack with any custom values without paying anything extra.

#1 and #2 mean that the net price of the pack, regardless of the custom options and Paypal fees will be a fixed/net $195 plus shipping. The only thing to add will be $5 for domestic shipping or $15 for international shipping (via USPS Priority Small Box Flat Rate). This should keep confusion to a minimum for my customers and for myself:

-> Domestic price (net) = $195 + $5
-> International price (net) = $195 + $15


3) The first sales thread used the A3 version of the custom battery carrier from Eric, which was mostly based on white Delrin. The new sales thread will be using the A5 version of the custom battery carrier, which incorporates two changes: a little bit more protection to the driver board, and the use of Black Delrin.

As you will see in the pictures below, Eric accomplished this by designing a thicker top cover (without altering the overall length of the pack) which now leaves less space exposed, and that has the top 1/3 of the switch inside the top cover, while using a more ergonomic opening for the switch. Not a night-and-day difference, but since feedback in this thread reflected some worry about the driver board being somewhat exposed, this new revision of the pack improves this a little bit. And yes, the pack will now be Black Delrin, which does a much better job hiding "dirty fingers"

Here on the left is the revision A5, Black Edition PhD-M6 pack, and on the right is the original PhD-M6 pack:

New one on top - note the thicker top cover:

New Black Edition PhD-M6 pack followed by the original PhD-M6 pack:

New switch opening in the Black Edition PhD-M6 pack:

Original switch opening in the original PhD-M6 pack:

And a close up of both packs:

Both packs with AW's black label cells:

I will be doing a minor update to the PhD-M6 manual/guide to reflect the Red/Green dots in the new Black Edition PhD-M6 pack (versus the Red/Black in the original pack), but please note that there are no electrical/functional changes. Both the original PhD-M6 pack and the new Black Edition PhD-M6 pack will work and function "exactly" the same way.

Thanks again for all of the encouragement, feedback, and support that you guys game us to get this project going

Will

 

[LuxLuthor]

You should call the Black version the Ninja Pack. LOL! Nice looking and matches the black AW cells.

 

[wquiles]

Nice looking and matches the black AW cells.

You are right

I added a picture of both packs with the AW black label cells :twothumbs