Feedback/impressions on the PhD-M6 custom battery pack

[wquiles]

Re: Stupid question time

I second all the compliments that have been given so far. :twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

Have only had a few minutes to play with it so far. :thumbsdow Work gets in the way of a guy's hobbies at times.

I do have one question, though: How tight is the thumb nut supposed to be to make contact? I even shaved off the black plastic on the Neg. ends of my cells and have to really reef it down to get it to function.

Can't wait for dark!!!!!!!!:naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty:

Awesome, glad it arrived safely

If you close the pack too lightly, you will not get the optimal contact between all cells and the pack's electrical contact points, and you would therefore have a higher resistive path for the current, or even intermittent behavior.

I am sure that Eric will chime in sometime today, but the best description would be "very snug". As you start applying pressure, the nut basically gets to a point where is stops moving easily - to go past this point requires a lot of additional force, and it does feel like you are "compressing" the cells after this point. That is when you stop - you don't want to feel like you are compressing the cells.

These two short videos shows that I do get the nut "snug", but that I am not trying to crush the cells either:


PhD-M6 Video 14: Side loading of protected 17670 cells


PhD-M6 Video 15: Removing the protected 17670 cells



Will

 

[LuxLuthor]

I think the best "snugness" guideline is to the point where you cannot rotate the cells with your thumb. Don't over do it. You don't want to leave an indentation on the end plates for example.

 

[Tim W]

I think the best "snugness" guideline is to the point where you cannot rotate the cells with your thumb. Don't over do it. You don't want to leave an indentation on the end plates for example.

OK, that is about what it did take. Just didn't want to over do it by accident.

Thanks
Tim

 

[wquiles]

OK, that is about what it did take. Just didn't want to over do it by accident.

Thanks
Tim

Don't worry too much - the custom battery carrier that Eric designed is very robust and strong. Eric and I have used the prototype packs now for about 4 months and they are still as strong as when they were new, so don't worry if you apply a little bit more force to get the cells nice and tight

Once you get a chance to use tonight, please do let us know how it worked out.

Will

 

[Tim W]

Once you get a chance to use tonight, please do let us know how it worked out.

Will

Will do. Did run for about 10 minutes total with mn21 in the living room and have seen no dimming so far.

 

[wquiles]

Will do. Did run for about 10 minutes total with mn21 in the living room and have seen no dimming so far.

Excellent - this also means that the pack was nice and "tight"

 

[Dioni]

I can't wait to have one :mecry:

 

[LuxLuthor]

Got my 2nd PhD-M6. LOL! First thing I realized is that I only have one M-6. Have a "slew" of FM Megalenniums & bipin adapters that now I wish I could bore one out for this regulator. :thinking:

 

[mdocod]

In regard to "how tight?" questions:

Snug it up till the cells are all feeling like they are held in place pretty decent, keep in mind that there can be variations in cell lengths that can cause some issues. The pack has actually been designed to a balance of rigidity and flexibility to meet the needs of mild variations in cell length.

Eric

 

[Tim W]

Definitely a keeper!
My batteries are several years old and must be getting a little tired as I had several instances of the pack needing to be reset.
First time I've really used the MN21, and I was quite impressed. I had been running an 1185, and think that with the regulation I get much more consistent light than DDing the 1185.
I could easily light up the corner of my street that is about 400 feet away.


EDIT: Forgot to mention that moon mode is great. Still plenty of light and very useful. Did not let it run til batteries died, but still got at least another 5 minutes of light.

 

[wquiles]

Definitely a keeper!
My batteries are several years old and must be getting a little tired as I had several instances of the pack needing to be reset.
First time I've really used the MN21, and I was quite impressed. I had been running an 1185, and think that with the regulation I get much more consistent light than DDing the 1185.
I could easily light up the corner of my street that is about 400 feet away.

Thanks Tim. Sounds like you now have an excuse to buy some new 17670 cells :devil:

 

[Justin Case]

Post deleted.

 

[wquiles]

Very nice job Justin :thumbsup:

And WOW on that PAR36 head - very impressive!

 

[wquiles]

Stephen,

My current PhD driver was designed to fit/work only the custom battery carrier that Eric designed for the PhD-M6 pack. The board and the carrier were designed for each other, so I am pretty sure that a new application like FM's 3x18650 would require a complete re-design of the PWB, so definitely not something I can consider at this point in time.

Will

Hi Will,

I understand that your board was only designed to work with the battery pack, I also understand it IS AWESOME. I'll have to look at my pack further when it arrives, but I don't see why it couldn't work in one capacity or another (though it has been clear up to this point that my knowledge is vastly inferior to yours). Again I was looking to have something "custom made", thus buying the finished board from you and having other things machined and built around around it to accommodate my needs.

This is where the challenge comes:

- Think of the string of 3 cells in series. Lets call the (+) end of the cells the (+)Bat side, and (-)Bat for the other side.

- Then think about the pack. The pack also has a (+) and (-) side, (+)P and (-)P.

For the PhD drivers, the (+)Bat and the (+)P are exactly/electrically the same, but the (-)P and the (-)Bat are "not" the same - they are electrically isolated. The PhD driver (by turning on/off the MOSFET) switches the (-)Bat to the (-)P at about 250Hz, therefore creating the PWM signal for the bulb. By varying the duty cycle of the PWM signal, the driver can set the target RMS Voltage.

I am generalizing, but normal/standard direct drive battery packs have typically two key problems that need to be overcome in order for it to support a PhD type driver:
- There is no way to separate the (-)Bat from the (-)P -> they are always tied together. For the PhD driver to work, the (-)Bat "must" be electrically isolated from the (-)P.

- Most packs don't bring both the (+)Bat and (-)Bat to one side of the battery carrier -> for the PhD driver to monitor the series voltage, the PhD must have direct access to both sides of the cells in the pack.

So, it is certainly "possible" to modify/alter a regular 3x series pack to work with a PhD driver, but it is not quite trivial.

Will

 

[Troop#26]

This is where the challenge comes:

- Most packs don't bring both the (+)Bat and (-)Bat to one side of the battery carrier -> for the PhD driver to monitor the series voltage, the PhD must have direct access to both sides of the cells in the pack.

So, it is certainly "possible" to modify/alter a regular 3x series pack to work with a PhD driver, but it is not quite trivial.

Will

Will I have a very easy and amazing (ok... a little self indulgent perhaps, simple not that amazing) drop in solution to isolate PACK positive and BAT positive so that this driver (or any driver) can be used. I have tried to type it out in words several times but I cannot quite describe what I have in my head. As such the crayons are coming out and Im going to draw you a pic-a-ture. The only hard part is going to be either have a custom tail cap, or figuring out how to shave out distance out of the existing caps. Ill send it to you all private like soon!

Regards,

Stephen

 

[LuxLuthor]

This PhD-M6 just makes me happy.

I love things that are so thoughtfully designed, bug tested, well explained, but started as a complex challenge. Very few will ever know how much knowledge and experience had to be acquired, tweaking of so many design variables, research, selecting ideal features, running trial and error speculations, extensive testing, etc.--but then somehow all of that is distilled down to such an elegantly simple product with all the work and complexity made invisible--leaving the user with an adjustable, flexible, nearly foolproof high quality product without a rival. That is not easy to accomplish.

Like I said, recognizing all that this represents and accomplishes--just makes me happy.

 

[oldways]

This PhD-M6 just makes me happy.

I love things that are so thoughtfully designed, bug tested, well explained, but started as a complex challenge. Very few will ever know how much knowledge and experience had to be acquired, tweaking of so many design variables, research, selecting ideal features, running trial and error speculations, extensive testing, etc.--but then somehow all of that is distilled down to such an elegantly simple product with all the work and complexity made invisible--leaving the user with an adjustable, flexible, nearly foolproof high quality product without a rival. That is not easy to accomplish.

Like I said, recognizing all that this represents and accomplishes--just makes me happy.

It is making me happy too.

Guys lets hear your feedback on those packs out there.

 

[wquiles]

Thank you LuxLuthor and oldways for your kind words

Will I have a very easy and amazing (ok... a little self indulgent perhaps, simple not that amazing) drop in solution to isolate PACK positive and BAT positive so that this driver (or any driver) can be used. I have tried to type it out in words several times but I cannot quite describe what I have in my head. As such the crayons are coming out and Im going to draw you a pic-a-ture. The only hard part is going to be either have a custom tail cap, or figuring out how to shave out distance out of the existing caps. Ill send it to you all private like soon!

Regards,

Stephen

Just so that you can keep working on your idea: It is the PACK "NEG" and the BAT "NEG" that need to be isolated, and on the same side you also need to have access to both BAT "POS" and BAT "NEG"

 

[BSBG]

I have had my pack for a few days and wanted to share my thoughts. I wanted to wait a bit as my most recent project prior to this was a 3D Mag with 4 IMR 26500s using an AlanB regulator to drive an FM 1909. After that, even an MN21 is somewhat underwhelming.

Build quality and execution is first rate. I think we all know that from the numerous progress reports throughout the development. I dropped in 3 cells at 4.0v each from my 1331 direct drive M6 that was close at hand. Consulting the enclosed instructions I adjusted the dip switches with a tiny screwdriver and installed the pack. Pressing the button produced a slight 'boing' sound and a nice crisp white beam from the 1331 at 10.8v.

I immediately grabbed an MN21, HO M3T, MN16 and an MN61 from my box o' bulbs and tried them all (at the appropriate voltages). The MN21 would not turn on, but the HO M3T would at 6.8v. I swapped in some other cells (slightly lower voltage, 3.9v each) and it fired right up, go figure.

The MN21 is great at 6.8v. It is in the running to be my "go to" setup with this pack. The HO M3T and MN16 were nice, with the HO M3T looking like a good long-running option. An MN20, which I have not tried, would work well for this too. The MN61 was the last one I tried, and the one still in the light. While not quite as bright as the MN21 (but brighter than the MN16 or HO M3T), the longer run time and less abusive drain on the cells make this a strong contender for the best setup for me. I do have a Leef 3x18650 body and tried the MN61 direct drive in it– it may be brighter than the MN21, but bulb life is probably tragically short.
What about the 1331? I have kept an M6 set up with one with 3x17670 direct drive by my back door for a while. It is bright and has a great beam, but I may not continue with it in the regulated setup for the reasons outlined earlier in the discussion– very short regulated run time, even at the 2A draw.

This pack is a winner for the rechargeability, regulation, soft start, multiple bulb options and overall utility. Great job Will (and Eric)!

:twothumbs

 

[jtivat]

Well after playing with mine last night I just have a few thoughts.

MN21=:twothumbs

Why would there be any need to run any other lamp??