New Luxeon: Rebel

SemiMan

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Cree and Seoul both test their LEDS with pulse currents as well. That is how they rate their parts at a die temperature of 25C. The only way to do this is with pulse testing. It does not represent the real world, but it is consistent.

I am pretty certain these parts do not have anti-droop. I do not think that is going to be later (much?).

The Seoul P4 is interesting, but the spectrum as far as I am concerned has been tuned for specifications, i.e. high lumens, not necessarily useful light. The color rendering can be very poor depending on the subject. They use the same die as Cree, so you can see how many more lumens you get by changing the phosphor. The Cree parts have much more consistent color rendering and for flashlights where you never know what you are going to be lighting up, I think they are much better.

If I am interpreting the Rebel data sheet correctly, the 80 lumens is a minimum, the 145 is a typical so I do not think anything is wrong there.

One thing that I found interesting is that the Rebel is rated for its 50K hours at 135C, not 85C like Cree. While the Rebel is only rated for 1A, I wonder if we can drive it hard based on this with reduced life or it will just fail quickly. Should be interesting to find out, however, until we can see more parts, I will keep playing with the XRE.



Semiman
 

Calina

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Lexus said:
Those neutral white 4100 K LEDs look interesting. I wonder if they render colors better than the 6500 K ones. Btw they have the same efficiency as the cool white LEDs. :grin2:

You beat me to it.
 

Calina

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SemiMan said:
If I am interpreting the Rebel data sheet correctly, the 80 lumens is a minimum, the 145 is a typical so I do not think anything is wrong there.
Semiman

The 145 lm figure is at 700 mA the 80 lm is for a 350 mA current.
 

PhotonFanatic

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Long John said:
"Rebel" is the perfect name for them......it will be a rebellion in Led-light technology:rock:

Hopefully they will be available soon.

PhotonFanatic where are you?:lolsign:

Best regards

____
Tom

Waiting to hear back from Future. :D

Pricing, etc., you know, the little details.
 

soffiler

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PhotonFanatic said:
Waiting to hear back from Future. :D

Pricing, etc., you know, the little details.

Let us know what they say! Personally, I'm curious which of the 11 white part numbers are actually available right now. And, surely, the binning is going to be reflected in the pricing.
 

McGizmo

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The small package will allow the Rebel to be used in applications unsuited for the larger LED's. In terms of collimation for use in a flashlight, I am not sure there is any real gain. The size allows for mating with small reflectors of short focal lengths to be certain but with a short focal length, you will have significant divergence in the beam due to the relative image size to focal length. The Seoul 1/2 watt for instance can be used with a small reflector with better collimation results than the Rebel because the die in the 1/2 watt is smaller.

The Rebel is not friendly to the type of mod work and scale we are used to with the larger packages. The soft gummy dome is not good for mechanical referencing or indexing off of and centering can be a challenge.

I think the Rebel will be well received (provided flux claims are real ) in any number of LED applications but not necessarily or limited to flashlights. Color and tint consistency from Lumileds is anticipated to be superior to the others and the Rebel may be an example soon seen in real production items. The warmer color temperatures should be well received by the SSL industry I would imagine. In regards to flux claims, I have a few samples that are not claimed to be at the 80 lumen min but at about half that. From my simple and crude testing with an uncalibrated integrating sphere, it seems that the samples I have are compliant with mfg claims. This leads me to believe that there is a real chance that the 80 lumen min parts will be as]/i] advertised.

I think the Rebel represents a new form and alternative LED light source that can be added to our growing bag of tricks. The little fella will require attention to detail and some time to become acquainted with but seems worthy of consideration.

The above is JMHO.

As soon as I get my hands on a 80 lumen part, I plan to get more serious in getting to know the Rebel.
smile.gif
 

chris_m

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SemiMan said:
If I am interpreting the Rebel data sheet correctly, the 80 lumens is a minimum, the 145 is a typical so I do not think anything is wrong there.

Good point - I'd not noticed that. Would explain the difference, though given the graph later in the datasheet it would seem that a min 70lm part is actually typically 80lm (at 350mA) and an 80lm part typically 90lm :drool: That still makes the 80lm part not quite as good as a Q2 bin Cree, and I'm guessing they may also be about as easy to get hold of as a Q3 bin Cree!

I'm still not getting excited about these (they will be great for some applications, but not I think that handy for us modders), though looking forward to the Gen-X.
 

milkyspit

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orbital said:
Multi core is the future in technology.
If its CPUs, GPUs, high speed RAM, and now very possibly LEDs.


Luxeon V is a multi-core device along the lines of your definition. It's been with us since 2004 at least, probably earlier.
:shrug:
 

mpc

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I does make me think of a couple of things. Higher efficiency at lower currents and less heat generated for each emitter. I wonder if a smaller version of the McGizmo Three Shooter would be possible with longer runtimes, and without the need to make a special reflector.
 

65535

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They are soo small I can fit three in an array that will fit throught the hole in a SF light and allow my to make a 3LED SF trubo head.
 

PhotonFanatic

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In the excitement of the announcement, we often overlook some of the mundane items, such as this:

Sampling of the warm-white and neutral-white products begins immediately with volume
production later this year.

Translation: Future does not have any or the warm-white or neutral white Rebels for sale, and won't have them for some time.

So that leaves only the cool-whites availabe for immediate purchase, but Future hasn't had time to bin sort what they have received yet. Nothing like ordering an unknown bin--I've always had great results doing that. :lolsign:

Short story--it will be a while before I get any of these in for sale as I like to know what bin I will be selling to my customers, and I presume you would also like to know what you are buying, too.
 

PhotonFanatic

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Long John said:
Fred..............:awman:

The same procedure like every year:lolsign:


Best regards

_____
Tom


Yeah, and I thought they were definitely not going to do the announcement until the product was on Future's shelves. Well, it is on Future's shelves, just not all of it. :D

To be honest, the Gen-X is really the LED that we want and we know we'll be waiting a while for that, too.
 

IsaacHayes

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SemiMan said:
If I am interpreting the Rebel data sheet correctly, the 80 lumens is a minimum, the 145 is a typical so I do not think anything is wrong there.

If you are looking at the highest availible part #'s for cool white or neutral white, ending in 0080 then 80lm at 350ma yes. And 145 typical is at 700ma.

PhotonFanatic, are the 0080 part #'s availble? Or are they un-obtainum like the higher binned part # K2's?

Like you say, this is not the part we want really. They are interesting and I'm sure some experimenters will put them in things. They are small, and I can see them going in camera phones/etc. And the flux isn't anything really to get excited about, looks like the best part # is right about on par with the ezbright1000 die based leds (xre,p4,edison) if you don't de-rate it and just go by spec sheets. Neat but I won't be swapping my leds out for this led.
 
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LG&M

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Think how many Inova could put in a X5! Maybe 20 @ 350mA.
 

Art Vandelay

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Seoul is using Cree technology, why not Philips?

x2x3x2 said:
just what i was thiking, dye size seems the same.
so does the identical looking spec of 70lm/w at 350ma... claimed anyway. could they perhaps be using the same technology?
 

IsaacHayes

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They make their own die's, and are a competitor. That's like asking why isn't AMD using Intel chips or something... :p
 

zk188

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Jay R said:
Oh crap. Seems like just yesterday I upgraded my Raw NS to a Cree.




You know what else sucks buying a Nintendo DS only to have the DS Lite announced the following week.:rant:
 
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