P60 Turbo head Shoot out with lux readings.

[bigchelis]

Hi,

I have lightmeter model CA813 by AEMC Instruments. It captures peak lux readings and holds that value for easy recording.

I have a TLS bezel which looks like a Surefire KT-4 bezel, but it is 100% P60 compatible. I have an orange peel reflector on my 2.5in TLS bezel.

I also have the DBS 2in bezel. I call it the DBS Turbo bezel, but it is much smaller than the TLS. The Dereelight DBS bezel is also Orange Peel (OP) and 100% P60 compatible.

I put my meter at a perfect right angle to capture the most possible lux.

Please note: my 1st set of lux readings are at 1 meter and the 2nd set is at 5 meters. I didn't calculate, I actually moved the meter to get the readings.

Now for the fun stuff:
The SST-50 from Nailbender which makes 470 OTF lumens in a P60 hosts.
P60 OP reflector = 4,170 lux________ At 5 meters = 212 lux
Dereelight DBS = 13,350 lux______ At 5 meters = 425 lux
TLS 2.5in = 18,400 lux___________ At 5 meters = 750 lux

The Dereelight 2.1A MC-E drop-in completely stock does 463 OTF lumens in 6P.
P60 OP reflector = 4,200 lux________ At 5 meters = 156 lux
Dereelight DBS = 11,930 lux______ At 5 meters = 417 lux
TLS 2.5in = 14,640 lux ___________ At 5 meters = 626 lux

The Dereelight MC-E drop-in with 2.5A driver from Shinningbeam.com makes 489 OTF in 6P.
P60 OP reflector = 6,800 lux______ At 5 meters = 210 lux
Dereelight DBS = 13,100 lux______ At 5 meters = 514 lux
TLS 2.5in = 18, 300 lux__________At 5 meters = 777 lux

Dereelight R2 single mode drop-in; which did 225 OTF lumens in 6P type hosts.
P60 OP reflector = 6,700 lux______ At 5 meters = 371 lux
Dereelight DBS = 13,100 lux______ At 5 meters = 529 lux
TLS 2.5in = 22,300 lux___________At 5 meters = 1,093 lux

Nailbender XP-G R4 low voltage driver from KD. In 6P does about 300 OTF lumens.
P60 OP reflector = 7,400 lux______ At 5 meters = 230 lux
Dereelight DBS = 14,200 lux______ At 5 meters = 581 lux
TLS 2.5in = 27,400 lux___________At 5 meters = 1,026 lux

Extra readings non-P60:
Eagletac P20C2 XP-G R5 which does 330 OTF lumens:
Stock Orange Peel reflector does 13,300 lux
Stock Orange Peel reflector at 5 meters 342 lux

The Anto R5 which does 353 OTF at turn-on.
P60 orange peel reflector does 7,600 lux
At 5 meters = 341 lux

The Electrolumens DeCree XP-G with 5 degree narrow optic does 297 OTF lumens:
Stock = 6,400 lux
At 5 meters = 216 lux





Here is my set up:

Here are the bezels:

 

[joshconsulting]

I just did some beamshoot comparisons of the 2.5in TLS XP-G vs. the Dereelight XP-G turbo head at 96 yards according to google earth.

The Dereelight XP-G wins hands down and is no where near as big as the TLS 2.5in Turbo head. I then put a Dereelight R2 in the TLS Q5 and the Dereelight XP-G turbohead still beat it in throw. Very noticeable throw if I may add at 96 yards.

Now: I may take Lux Readings with my "AEMC CA813 LIGHTMETER " To see how the lux compares against the lumens MrGman already took.

Dereelight R2 single mode drop-in; which did 225 OTF lumens in 6P type hosts.
P60 OP reflector = 6,700 lux
Dereelight DBS = 13,100 lux
TLS 2.5in = 22,300 lux

Is the XP-G R5 really THAT much better that it can beat double the lux in the DBS, while staying or falling in the TLS? I am confused by these numbers, they seem to upset a few apple carts :duh2:

One other thing you might consider is measuring lux at 5 meters then adjusting to 1, as I've heard stories that the bigger heads don't get a chance to fully focus the beam at just 1m.

 

[bigchelis]

If I have time I will try the 5 meter readings since I plan to re-test the DEFT at that distance too.

Thanks for the tip.

Also, the DBS or TLS bezels make all my MC-E drop-ins including the DX variants ring free. To my eyes they even give out a perfect beam with all XP-G, R2, and SST-50.

This reading was the most shocking in terms of lumens and lux.
Eagletac P20C2 XP-G R5 which does 330 OTF lumens:
Stock Orange Peel reflector does 13,300 lux

 

[csshih]

I now have a solarforce p60 XP-G dropin that you might be interested in testing

 

[joshconsulting]

Yea, I can't wait to see what it does in a big head - that's quite a focused little beam! I was under the impression that the R2 was the king of throwers, but the R5 looks quite a bit better, at least in P60 format.

How's the ringyness on the DBS? Is it a VLOP or a standard OP? Jay sent me the VLOP and the SMO, so I had a chance to try both - the SMO made the SST-50 slightly ringy, the VLOP made it perfectly smooth. But several other people said their SST-50s were smooth even with the SMO reflector, so it may depend on the pill.

Just noticed you keep editing in more lux readings, great job :twothumbs

For people like me who factor in two things when buying a light - size and output - having something like this is really handy.

 

[harddrive]

Excellent thread Bigchelis. You are doing CPF a great service with all the lumen and Lux testing :twothumbs

This reading was the most shocking in terms of lumens and lux.
Eagletac P20C2 XP-G R5 which does 330 OTF lumens:
Stock Orange Peel reflector does 13,300 lux

That is very unexpected indeed. That's double what an R2 did in P60 format and slightly more than the R2 in a DBS head! Does it seem that throwy to the naked eye? Light-reviews only got 5140 lux in the P20C2 XP-G they reviewed which is what I sort of expected. 13,300 is incredible for an XP-G in such as small OP reflector.

 

[bigchelis]

Excellent thread Bigchelis. You are doing CPF a great service with all the lumen and Lux testing :twothumbs



That is very unexpected indeed. That's double what an R2 did in P60 format and slightly more than the R2 in a DBS head! Does it seem that throwy to the naked eye? Light-reviews only got 5140 lux in the P20C2 XP-G they reviewed which is what I sort of expected. 13,300 is incredible for an XP-G in such as small OP reflector.

To the naked eye it looks double the brightness and has a hot spot about half the size of the Dereelight R2 P60 drop-in.

I just took the Eagletac and the Dereelight in my 6P outside and at 50yards they both easily reach, but the Eagletac covers an area 3x the size with more intensity. I aimed both lights at a building exactly 96 yards (per google earth) and the R2 reaches, but Eagletac reaches and since I can't see where the light ends it seems not as bright as the R2 at 96yards. I re-did this over and over and concluded that because I can clearly see the R2 light cut-out vs. the Eagletac just blends into the enviorment much like the Malkoff M60. Hope this helps, but I just confused myself too.
bigC

 

[bigchelis]

Josh,

You were correct. I moved the meter exactly 15 meters away and re-took the measurements and sure enought all is as it should be now.:thumbsup:

 

[bigchelis]

I now have a solarforce p60 XP-G dropin that you might be interested in testing

Craig,

Thanks for the lending your lights for testing. Now, what is this you say about a new P60 XP-G drop-in. Is it a Modoo Tripple? or a Malkoff xP-G?

 

[joshconsulting]

Sure enough, changes things up a lot. Don't give me the credit, I got my idea off of selfbuilt's reviews - he measures at 5 meters. What I meant by calculating was to calculate the 1 meter out of the 5, not vice versa - selfbuilt does some calculations for 1 meter so that his results are at least somewhat comparable with results from other reviewers. 15 meters might be even better, I'm sure it varies from light to light. A little testing will beat any speculation I could do, so I'll leave it up to you.

 

[Justin Case]

It would be interesting to measure the IS lumens numbers for these various pills as a function of reflector (P60, DBS, and TLS).

 

[sfca]

This is AWESOME!!! :twothumbs:twothumbs
Perhaps we should set up a bigchelis fund to help out with all the electricity used charging batteries. Authorities must think you have a grow op in there! :laughing:

P.S. I didn't know you guys used metric down there

 

[Dole]

Bigchelis, could you maybe take some lux readings for the T20C2 mkII to compare to the P20C2 mkII

 

[bogeymachine]

I now have a solarforce p60 XP-G dropin that you might be interested in testing

 

[bigchelis]

It would be interesting to measure the IS lumens numbers for these various pills as a function of reflector (P60, DBS, and TLS).

I did. They are mixed in my IS Sphere thread. Not as easy to spot because I have way too many combos on the list, but they are there.

In a nutshell all the pills perform the best (most lumens on turn-on and sustained) with the DBS then the P60 stock and last with the TLS. Once I get a UCL lens for the TLS things may change:candle:

 

[csshih]

Jose, it's a Solarforce dropin. will try to get my hands on a malkoff sooner or later

 

[Justin Case]

This is the data that I was able to extract from this post and your main IS thread. I think there is a lot of missing data. None of the pills were tested with the TLS TH (I see only the stock XR-E Q5 and presumably a mod'ed XP-G R4 -- is that using the stock driver?). Some of the pills were not tested with the DBS TH. Some of the SureFire 6P tests are missing lumens vs time runs (I assume that when you report single data points, it is for 1 sec?).

In any case, it looks like these THs have optical losses comparable to that for a SureFire bezel (Z44?). The DBS seems to have better heat sinking vs a SureFire 6P in the test with the Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A pill.

I will postulate that THs that were originally designed for incandescent bulbs may have greater optical losses than THs designed for LEDs. Thus, I eagerly await your tests with whatever SF THs you can obtain and using both incandescent lamp towers and LED towers to see if this is correct or not, and what the percentages are.

Pill: Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A
Host: Surefire 6P w/ 18650
Output:
463.1________________1 sec
416.2________________30 sec
393.8________________1 min
365.4________________2 min
348.5________________3 min

Host: Dereelight DBS
470.8________________1 sec
420.8________________30 sec
414.6________________1 min
406.9________________2 min
402.3________________3 min

Host: TLS TX4

Pill: Dereelight R2 single mode drop-in
Host: SureFire 6P
Dereelight R2 single mode drop-in; which did 225 OTF lumens in 6P type hosts.

Host: Dereelight DBS
225.4_________________ 1 sec
213.8_________________ 30 sec
209.2_________________ 1 min
204.6_________________ 2 min
202.3_________________ 3 min

Host: TLS TX4

Pill: Nailbender SST-50 w/ 2.5A
Host: SureFire 6P
The SST-50 from Nailbender which makes 470 OTF lumens in a P60 hosts.

Host: Dereelight DBS499.2_________________ 1 sec
433.1_________________ 30 sec
423.8_________________ 1 min
416.9_________________ 2 min
413.8_________________ 3 min

Host: TLS TX4

Pill: Dereelight MC-E drop-in with 2.5A driver from Shinningbeam.com
Host: SureFire 6P
489.2________________1 sec
439.2_______________ _30 sec
435.4_______________ _1 min
410.0_______________ _2 min
398.5_______________ _3 min

Host: Dereelight DBS

Host: TLS TX4

Pill: Nailbender XP-G R4 low voltage driver from KD.
Host: SureFire 6P
Nailbender XP-G R4 low voltage driver from KD. In 6P does about 300 OTF lumens.

Host: Dereelight DBS

Host: TLS TX4

 

[turboBB]

BigC,

Thx a lot for these tets, very informative and with regards to the XP-G R4, eye opening...

However, I'm just not seeing anywhere near remotely comparable numbers vs. your results.

I also have Nailbender's XP-G R4 module as well as the original DBS V2 XR-E R2 3mode module and in informal testing using DBS V2 and V3 as hosts and both w/smooth reflectors, the XP-G is nearly half the LUX @ roghly 2 meters as measured by a Extech HD450 light meter with Peak mode.

Even to my naked eye, the XP-G has nowhere near the intense hot spot that the XR-E has. Maybe my XP-G module has a problem?

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Tim

 

[bigchelis]

I just realized I typed 15 meters, but no.

It was only 5 meters and 1 meter readings.

 

[bigchelis]

Justin Case,

Thanks for the help. I want to test those pills in the TLS 2.5in bezel too, but I first need a AR Coated lens. I could test them in the DBS for now.:thumbsup: