SureFire vs. UltraFire

On several sites I read: "why buy a SF? Because they are the best in the world!"

As I'm totally new in the world of incandescent tactical flashlights that work on CR123A etc etc my first buy was an Ultrafire WF-501B. I got it today, I switched it on, and was totally surprised by the output.

Does anybody know how many Lumens this thing REALLY has? The seller stated an enormous amount of Lumens (I actually forgot the number) but in a direct comparison with my MagCharger, this little baby simply outshines it

Now the question is: HOW much better can it get? Is a SF with the P90 or P91 bulb so much better?? It is at least 5X as expensive, so you might expect some sort of.... revolution AGAIN


Timmo.

Once you get over a certain point, these lights aren't really competing for the lumens as such.

A $20 can be brighter than a $200 light, and vice versa.

What you get for the extra money is the quality of the beam and the light itself, and reliability.

A sage piece of flashaholic advice - everyone wishes that they had skipped all the cheap lights in the beginning and had just gotten one or two good lights.

Go ahead and buy the Surefire now, there will be no regrets.

The 501B-Xenon is good for what it is... cheap incan. I mean youre getting around ~115 Lumens (ballpark conservative estimate) for $9 shipped. Thats AA minimag pricing... FWIW

But the beam quality is pretty bad IMHO. football-kidney bean shaped hot spot, and the build quality varies greatly. My 501B came with scratches and scuff marks all over the OP reflector.

The P61 lamp completely blows it away for overall build quality, beam concentricity, hot spot size and overall lumen output. A P91 would be no contest at all.

The cheap thrills are fun, but there is something to be said for having a few that you can always depend on. This is not to say that all ultrafires stink, there are gems in the rough, I have a couple that are several years old that, with some maintenance, are still working reasonably well. I've since modified them to LED modules and li-ion cells, but that's nor here nor there...

Check out SolarForce if you want cheap but a SF lego compatibility and better drop-in compatibility.

At some point, you will need to get a SureFire to "understand." hehe... You'll see

IMO, it's not that SF has brighter stuff, in fact, there is a lot of stuff out there that walks all over SF in output and beam quality for less money, it's more about the total experience and design and build etc etc...

Eric

surprisingly, when it comes to comparing flashlights, how bright a light is only ascertains about 25% worth of importance, the rest is on durability, fit and finish, warranty, and modding [expanding] possibility.

really...in a flashlight's life, its only lit roughly <1/4 of its life, otherwise its on the shelf. Unless its a user of course, then you'll really have to look at durability:nana:

I have a 501b (bought it for my son).. beam quality is decent and it's pretty close to the P90 in my Surefire Z3. If anyone wants i could do some quick outdoor beamshots tonight to compare the 2.

but as far as fit/finish.. not even close. :thumbsup:

325addict said:

On several sites I read: "why buy a SF? Because they are the best in the world!"

As I'm totally new in the world of incandescent tactical flashlights that work on CR123A etc etc my first buy was an Ultrafire WF-501B. I got it today, I switched it on, and was totally surprised by the output.

Now the question is: HOW much better can it get? Is a SF with the P90 or P91 bulb so much better?? It is at least 5X as expensive, so you might expect some sort of.... revolution AGAIN

Timmo.

Click to expand...

Just remember that flashlights are made out to be far more than they actually are. They are no more than a collection of alloy tubes/parts holding a set of batteries, switch and lamp assembly. The internals are far more important than the externals. The difference in the "skins" is the fit and finish. Surefire is known for tighter tolerances and more durable finish, although today some of the cheaper lights come very close. I have many lights but only very few are SF and these have been customized to a large degree anyway.

First decide on the internals such as battery, lamp, switch and then decide on the host that will allow you to get what you want/need......this is much more cost effective in the long term.

Here is a compairson @ 60'..

P90 (2002 version)


Ultrafire 501B



the Z3's batteries have a bit more use as it's usually the host to a turbohead but both are pretty darn close.

Surefire built a fan base around build quality and reliability as well as brightness. If you're hoping that a 9P will be 5 times brighter because it's 5 timres the price, you're going to be very disappointed. It will be bright, but most of that money is going to go into other departments.

Now, about your name. Is it a reference to the BMW 325

lol...

These brands can't even be put into the same category. Not even close. It's like comparing fine steak to hamburger. Hamburger that has been sitting in the sun too long.

I'll leave it up to readers to decide which is the steak.

Thank you all for these wise words :shrug:

So I'll someday have to buy a SF and be sure, it'll live at least as long as I do, and I can always count on it. That's worth a lot indeed! Which one should I buy, to have comparable performance? There are SO many types around as I've seen now....

My 501B came with perfect reflector, NO scratches over the body too, and the hotspot is a fine circle! Maybe beginners-luck :green: or.... it's the effect I also had with Hi-Fi: You are happy with what you have until... you've heard something that's WAYYY better :naughty:

Yes, my name refers to the legendary BMW E30 325i... it's simply the best car ever built! RWD, that silky smooth 6-in-line engine, the sound, the dash, it's all perfect! I wouldn't want to swap it for the newest model...
I have two of them at the moment, a 2-door and a convertible. The 2 door in technically good shape, the convertible is near-perfect.


Timmo.

325addict said:

Yes, my name refers to the legendary BMW E30 325i...

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Aw hell yes. My first was an E30 325is. Nothing can compare to that car, enjoy yours while you can!

I was playing around with my P61 and 501B LA in a TOP Stryker... and I think I was wrong about overall lumen output the two seem much closer than I remembered

501B in TOP Stryker


P61L in 6P


My particular 501B LA is definitely football shaped, but it evens out in the field so its a moot point really. I had forgotten how much I like the 501B LA. Its important to note that the 501B is running off 8.4V RCR123s and the P61 is running off semi-used Surefire primaries, so its at a 2.4V disadvantage right off the bat. The 501B is more like a 9V lamp compared to the P61.

StarHalo said:

A sage piece of flashaholic advice - everyone wishes that they had skipped all the cheap lights in the beginning and had just gotten one or two good lights.

Go ahead and buy the Surefire now, there will be no regrets.

Click to expand...

My Sigline!

325addict said:

Thank you all for these wise words :shrug:

So I'll someday have to buy a SF and be sure, it'll live at least as long as I do, and I can always count on it. That's worth a lot indeed! Which one should I buy, to have comparable performance? There are SO many types around as I've seen now....

My 501B came with perfect reflector, NO scratches over the body too, and the hotspot is a fine circle! Maybe beginners-luck :green: or.... it's the effect I also had with Hi-Fi: You are happy with what you have until... you've heard something that's WAYYY better :naughty:

Yes, my name refers to the legendary BMW E30 325i... it's simply the best car ever built! RWD, that silky smooth 6-in-line engine, the sound, the dash, it's all perfect! I wouldn't want to swap it for the newest model...
I have two of them at the moment, a 2-door and a convertible. The 2 door in technically good shape, the convertible is near-perfect.


Timmo.

Click to expand...

Ahhh, now trying to decide which SF to buy is a whole other inner struggle. Even if you were to create a post "Help me decide between these TWO surefire's" You'd get a melange of people split 50/50 on both, and the rest would recommend others not even on your list. lol I myself can't decide which of the new offerings out of their 2009 list that I want (and if they become available in the next 6 months, I still won't know by then which one).

:welcome:
Ultrafires are really hit and miss...you can get really good ones, and really crappy ones. youve got a good one, be happy with it...

If youre gonna get a surefire, get a C2 Centurion. Its THE surefire light to have IMO, and you can even use the Lamp Module from your WF-501B

When youre talking about 100 to about 300 lumens, its not JUST about the lumens. Build quality and everything is important because this light is at a level you wil use on a daily (nightly?) basis.

once you hit 500-1000s, or even 10,000s, its ALL about the lumens...

Crenshaw

StarHalo said:

A sage piece of flashaholic advice - everyone wishes that they had skipped all the cheap lights in the beginning and had just gotten one or two good lights.

Go ahead and buy the Surefire now, there will be no regrets.

Click to expand...

+1 on everything he said. But i would just like to point out that most of use will (and sometimes still do) have wondered and bought a budget light to just give it a try

Reliability is now becoming more important to me, i have mainly jetbeams and they have yet to fail me, sold off almost ALL my DX lights too.

Don't worry about it, its a natural progression

cernobila said:

Just remember that flashlights are made out to be far more than they actually are. They are no more than a collection of alloy tubes/parts holding a set of batteries, switch and lamp assembly.

Click to expand...

This is true. I've seen some polls recently where you pick the one non-negotiable factor when choosing an EDC. Of all the options usually listed, the one that's often left out is reliability. Despite whatever you look for in a light (ie. output, tint, aesthetics, battery type, etc.), the one thing that should be most important to you is reliability. I mean, what could be worse than grabbing a light when you absolutely need it to work and it doesn't for whatever reason? I think that's been Glock's selling point for some time now. I don't own a Glock, nor do I particularly like the styling of their handguns, but they're known the world over for their utter reliability. When you pull the trigger, it fires. Similarly, when you press a button it should light up. I'm not going to go so far as to say that ALL Surefire's are more reliable than ALL xxxxfire's, but generally speaking, there are more threads asking for help on why their xxxxfire's aren't working vs. Surefire's.

It's a bit OT, but think of when a father/mother is buying their son/daughter their first used automobile. The teenager who's never driven before is very keen on looking cool and showing off (ie. tinted windows, shiny wheels, cool paint, etc.) while the seasoned parent is more concerned with the car's drivetrain reliability. When you're a newcomer, it's all about the brightest/cheapest/smallest. As you delve further into the hobby, you learn to appreciate quality does come at a price tag, but it's worth it.

I paid 40 dollars in 2004 for a 6p. It's been dropped count less times, ran over by my truck, tossed onto concrete, and works like new and water doesn't get in. With a Malkoff M60 it's a very dependable light.

Life is good.