What to do when someone takes a web page

I'm actually kinda flattered, but a Web site out west has grabbed a slightly older copy (say 3 months ago) of one of my web pages, and made a PDF copy, and saved it to their web site as a reference document (on Go Bags)

The thing that bugs me is

1)The didn't leave any of the links in the PDF to the rest of my site live
2)They removed any reference to me
3)THEY DIDN'T Ask

I just sent them a nice letter, asking them to at least credit me, and I'll wait for the response, but what would YOU do? It's a quazi-governments site (a CERT team site) with a well known hard nosed sherrif in Az (no names at this point)

If I don't get a response - should I be hard nosed, or what?

Do you have an attorney?

Definitely consult an experienced lawyer. People should know not to do stuff like that.

Keep in mind, it may have been provided to them by a 3rd party who may be the real abuser. Given how expensive it is to use attorneys (all those who say "contact an attorney" rarely have used and paid for their services--most average attorneys are $175-250/hour + expenses), you would first need to know that you have sustained actual monetary damages, and that you have a copyright clearly posted on every page of your website.

Then you have to decide how much of an affront it is to you/your website. To get an attorney to write a letter will likely require a retainer being posted of $1500, of which they somehow always seem to magically use all that up and need more. If you ever need to proceed to an actual lawsuit, you will need to spend at least $35,000 to $50,000 and several years before anything is resolved.

KC2IXE said:

I'm actually kinda flattered, but a Web site out west has grabbed a slightly older copy (say 3 months ago) of one of my web pages, and made a PDF copy, and saved it to their web site as a reference document (on Go Bags)

The thing that bugs me is

1)The didn't leave any of the links in the PDF to the rest of my site live
2)They removed any reference to me
3)THEY DIDN'T Ask

I just sent them a nice letter, asking them to at least credit me, and I'll wait for the response, but what would YOU do? It's a quazi-governments site (a CERT team site) with a well known hard nosed sherrif in Az (no names at this point)

If I don't get a response - should I be hard nosed, or what?

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KC2IXE said:

.........

If I don't get a response - should I be hard nosed, or what?

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As hard nosed as you care to be and can afford. I'd probably write a letter, certified, return receipt, threatening legal action. However, that's about as far as I would go

They're probably counting on you to not fight back and will probably back down if you threaten legal action. You could probably use archive.org's "wayback machine" to prove that you were the source of the material, as well.

If you don't fight back and exercise your right to "petition the government for redress of grievances" they're going to keep doing it over and over again.

You don't need to have copyright notices posted on every page, nor do you have to sustain any monetary damage. The item is copyrighted the moment it has been created. Registering your copyright may make it easier to enforce the copyright, but not registering it does not negate the fact that it is protected under copyright law.

The hard truth here is that unless you stand to lose tons of money because of them stealing your web page, they know quite well you'll likely not pursue legal action. This sounds to me like it may have been a case of the other person "borrowing" something they thought was cool, but failing to give credit because they thought they didn't have to. A lot of people mistakeningly think everything on the Internet is public domain. They feel if they give credit at all, then it's more a courtesy than a requirement. Also, there are cultural barriers in some cases. In many Eastern cultures copying what someone else does is considered the ultimate compliment-no credits necessary, and the person who has their work copied is usually flattered. I gave up a long time ago worrying about if people copy stuff I've wrote. I figure in a way, by reposting it, they're paying me a compliment. It's not like I make any money off the stuff I write here, or the work I've done with MS Train Simulator. Now if it was IP for my electronics business, then that's another story entirely....

If you do not get a response, you should write a more pointed "cease and desist" letter, as it's known. It's your copyrighted material, and they should acknowledge you, or take it down. It's stealing. Sounds like they didn't even paraphrase or modify your work.

The letter goes something like this:

Part 1: I am ___, my website is ___. I've had it up for ___ years, blah blah (I'm so great).
Part 2: It has come to my attention that your website ___, which is identical to ____, and is a violation of my intellectual property rights (you did bad things).
Part 3: You have blatantly and intentionally copied my work, without my consent, you are infringing my copyrights (conclusion).
Part 4: Under these circumstances, I demand ___ (remove from your website, credit me on every page, blah blah).
Part 5: I further demand you advise me in writing of the steps you have taken to comply. Unless this matter is satisfactorily resolved, I will consider taking appropriate action to terminate your unlawful activities described in this letter (threaten legal action).

Please do not construe this as legal advice, I am only outlining the parts of a typical cease and desist letter.

All that said, I belong to my town's CERT team, and we really try to do everything on the up and up and would totally credit you immediately. (As you might expect, I did our "Go Bag" flyer and seminar, but we don't have it on the town site).

daloosh

I got a reply - they were given the page by a member who passed it off as his. It was removed

That's good to hear. So you going to let us see it now?

Oh, I was never hiding it

http://www.thegallos.com/gobag.htm

was the one that has been stolen (found another site that took the exact text, and put it in their downloadable RTF)

I've made a few changes over the last, oh 3-4 months, so the copies are no longer the same

I didn't think you were hiding it, but I was curious about the Go Bag info... Look good. Thanks!

I love stuff like this. Not stealing intelectual property, but go bags and preparedness in general are cool!
Perhaps a wax pencil would make a good improvement.
Also for the cell phone, I've found that they can be made to work off of 3 L92 lithium aaa batteries in a holder like this.
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2111
You could get a cheapo cell phone and solder one to the battery terminals, a little velcro tape and it's good to go. Toss it in a drybag with some extra cells and forget about it.
Love the knot card btw!

If they didnt ask its your intellectual property and they stole it .

I always wonder about the moral and technological aspects of this particular "problem".

By definition, you put something on a web site with the expectation that other people will look at it. By definition, it is copied to their computer for rendering. So you could say that you desire that people copy your work and look at it.

On the positive side.... If your site is not a pay site, then you lose no money when someone copies it. If they make a copy and host it on their website, you do not even suffer from increased bandwidth. If they remove your name, then you don't get pestered by their customers asking questions or making suggestions.


On the legal side... If you have photographs you can ask that they stop using them. The list itself is not copyrightable. The description about the list is.

While it's nice to get credit for the work, there is no real harm done. No harm, no loss. There is nothing you can claim as damages.

I'd take it as a compliment, and offer them a fresh copy that DOES include your name.

Daniel

KC2IXE said:

I got a reply - they were given the page by a member who passed it off as his. It was removed

LuxLuthor said:

Keep in mind, it may have been provided to them by a 3rd party who may be the real abuser.

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As I suspected.