dodge WILL release the challenger

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Unlike what they did to the Charger, the Challenger looks to DROOL OVER!!!! It REALLY favors the original and that is KEWL!

 

[cheapo]

i would prefer the grill not be imbedded into the front of the car.... and i think the grill should also be more noticable.... but, with the 425hp srt8 engine, it'll get you to sixty in 4 and a half seconds..... If i had to guess the weight, i would say about 3000lbs- dodge doesnt make light vehicles (excluding the viper).... those sweet brembos brakes that the SRTs come with ARE AWSOME! If i had to guess the stopping distance, i would say 110-115ft.

i just love that charger in the pics.... not very fuel efficient, but it is a sports car. My first real car will probably something cheap like a Caliber.

-David

 

[ddakrt]

HERE HERE!

Welcome to CPF ddakrt! You're going to fit in just fine

... hold on to your wallet

Hehe, thanks for the welcome. I can be retraint when it comes to money, but I do know what I want

i would prefer the grill not be imbedded into the front of the car.... and i think the grill should also be more noticable.... but, with the 425hp srt8 engine, it'll get you to sixty in 4 and a half seconds..... If i had to guess the weight, i would say about 3000lbs- dodge doesnt make light vehicles (excluding the viper).... those sweet brembos brakes that the SRTs come with ARE AWSOME! If i had to guess the stopping distance, i would say 110-115ft.

i just love that charger in the pics.... not very fuel efficient, but it is a sports car. My first real car will probably something cheap like a Caliber.

-David

The grill is recessed because that's how Challengers/Cudas were, it wouldn't look right with a flush grill.

The 6.1L is also very under-rated, much like the SRT-4 engine. People have been dynoing the 6.1s at 380whp and torque, which really puts the engine at about 460ho and 460lb/ft of torque.

There are rumours that there'll be a more powerful engine on top of the 6.1L, Mopar has a 6.3L crate Hemi that puts down 500hp, they put that one in a 1971 Challenger for SEMA, and the SRT guys put a SRT-8 badge on it as a "joke". The Challenger concept with the 6.1 has just R/T badges, many people think it's a hint.

It'll weight in at 3800lb at least and be on the LY platform (current is the LX). 3000lb is actually very light, Corollas, Cobalt, Civic, etc weight in at a bit less than that. Most mid size sedans are in the 3500-3800lb range, a SRT Charger is about 4100lb.
The viper is around 3400-3500lb.

P.S. The viper will be redesigned for the 2008 model year (comes out in 2007), a new 8.4L V10 will put out 650-700hp.

Like I said, check out Allpar forums

 

[cheapo]

yeah, I am a HUGE DODGE FAN. You seen the spy photos of the new avenger? I am not sure if i'da based it on the lancer platform, seeing as the side crash test on the lancer was a measly two stars.... but hopefully dodge added some safety bars in the door.

Actually 3800lbs is VERY HEAVY.....thats as much as a chevy equinox (suv). Consider this: a VW passat weighs in at 3500

I knew it was only a matter of time before dodge came out with a new engine for an upcoming viper, but i would have thought that they'de have gone with a 12 cylinder though.... once I saw that the viper was getting smoked by the corvette z06, i knew dodge was going to do something. But Dodge should seriousely thing about having an all aluminum platform like the Corvette- much lighter.

-David

 

[ddakrt]

I've seen the Avenger spy shots and have seen the front and back uncovered. The front and back looks good, and the side doesn't look bad from the spy shots. It's based on the Galant platform, but use that "platform" very loosely. People say the LX cars are running on the last gen Mercedes E class platform, but the only thing they share is the rear suspension design, tranny, seat frames, stability control/ABS/etc, and the electronic archetecture (sp?).

The Avenger/Sebring will be safe cars, and will get 5 star crash ratings, don't worry.

3800lb+ is what you would expect from a mid size RWD sedan, Lincoln LS, Merc E class, LX cars, etc. The Equinox is more the exception to the rule, it's simply a light crossover based on a minivan. Like I said, FWD mid size sedans now usually weight arounf 3500lb, 3800lb is not uncommon.
Do you know how much the Mustang weights? Or the GT500? At 3000lb that you mention it's way closer to a Miata than to the Challenger.

No way a Viper will come with a V12, viper development is heavily influenced by Viper owners, and time after time they said they wanted: V10, no electronic nannies, no automatic trannies.

 

[cheapo]

I've seen the Avenger spy shots and have seen the front and back uncovered. The front and back looks good, and the side doesn't look bad from the spy shots. It's based on the Galant platform, but use that "platform" very loosely. People say the LX cars are running on the last gen Mercedes E class platform, but the only thing they share is the rear suspension design, tranny, seat frames, stability control/ABS/etc, and the electronic archetecture (sp?).

The Avenger/Sebring will be safe cars, and will get 5 star crash ratings, don't worry.

3800lb+ is what you would expect from a mid size RWD sedan, Lincoln LS, Merc E class, LX cars, etc. The Equinox is more the exception to the rule, it's simply a light crossover based on a minivan. Like I said, FWD mid size sedans now usually weight arounf 3500lb, 3800lb is not uncommon.
Do you know how much the Mustang weights? Or the GT500? At 3000lb that you mention it's way closer to a Miata than to the Challenger.

No way a Viper will come with a V12, viper development is heavily influenced by Viper owners, and time after time they said they wanted: V10, no electronic nannies, no automatic trannies.

ok, 3800 is fine. The mustang weighs in a 3300 lbs... so its not too far. I dont care if they use a v12, as long as they BEAT THE STUPID CORVETTE!

-David

 

[ddakrt]

A Stang GT weights about 3400-3500, the GT500 weights in at a porky 3900+. Suprised? Me too when I found out.

 

[twentysixtwo]

Challenger is on a pretty heavy platform, though the IRS will be nice.

I personally think the design is too derivative of the original. To each his own...

 

[Cornkid]

I'm personally a proponent of technological advancement, and thus can not possibly find any reason, whatsoever, to purchase this automobile.

tom

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I could find a reason EASY!

Just not the money!

I'll say again, it LOOKS a LOT like a 70-71 car... and that is BITCHIN'

 

[ddakrt]

I'm personally a proponent of technological advancement, and thus can not possibly find any reason, whatsoever, to purchase this automobile.

tom

Defind technological advancement? I smell an import fan who swares by VTeCKKKKK!!!





IMHO it's not how you get it done, it's if you get it done. There's no replacement for displacement. :naughty:

 

[Icebreak]

I was wondering if that statement would go unchallenged.

ddakrt -

You know MoPar is always behind in technology as exemplified by this dinocarusrex.

Until that Challenger comes out, for all we know they just dropped a nice body ontop of an old Cuda Hemi. What a rip-off that would be...all that old technomuscle.

 

[Kristofg]

IMHO it's not how you get it done, it's if you get it done. There's no replacement for displacement. :naughty:

Yes there is, it's called turbocharger and supercharger

 

[cheapo]

I've seen the Avenger spy shots and have seen the front and back uncovered. The front and back looks good, and the side doesn't look bad from the spy shots. It's based on the Galant platform, but use that "platform" very loosely. People say the LX cars are running on the last gen Mercedes E class platform, but the only thing they share is the rear suspension design, tranny, seat frames, stability control/ABS/etc, and the electronic archetecture (sp?).

The Avenger/Sebring will be safe cars, and will get 5 star crash ratings, don't worry.

3800lb+ is what you would expect from a mid size RWD sedan, Lincoln LS, Merc E class, LX cars, etc. The Equinox is more the exception to the rule, it's simply a light crossover based on a minivan. Like I said, FWD mid size sedans now usually weight arounf 3500lb, 3800lb is not uncommon.
Do you know how much the Mustang weights? Or the GT500? At 3000lb that you mention it's way closer to a Miata than to the Challenger.

No way a Viper will come with a V12, viper development is heavily influenced by Viper owners, and time after time they said they wanted: V10, no electronic nannies, no automatic trannies.

i am pretty sure it is based on the lancer platform.... also, i know it will get a 5 star frontal, it is the side rating that needs to be improved. I would love to see some spy photos of the new viper.

-David

 

[Cornkid]

I personally dont understand the whole thing with old-school looking cars. I like the new cars (mainly imports) that are gas-efficient, installed with all kinds of upgrades, and look.. well.. hi-tech

Other than that, the Challenger would make a nice exhibit in a museum.
-tom

 

[twentysixtwo]

This is the year that "No replacement for displacement" is proven to be no longer true.

Direct Injected gasoline engines with turbo is the new king.

I have data that shows a production 3.XL V6 completely blowing away the 5.7L V8 Hemi - both on HP and low end Torque. This includes "closed hood" back to back driving comparisons.

It's on the road in high performance vehicles already - the Mazdaspeed 6 has

274 HP @ 5500
280 FP @3000

coming from a 2.3L I4!

 

[cheapo]

which hemi is it "blowing away" in HP? As far as I know all the modern Hemis have 330hp+.

-david

 

[ddakrt]

Icebreak, was that sarcasm? What was wrong with the turbine car? The new Challenger will be on the LY platform, which has nothing in common with the old Challenger/Cudas.


Turbos and superchargers are replacements, sorta, until you put those power adders ontop of a larger dislacement engine. Force induction also put a lot more stress on an engine, having said that though, I do perfer my cars to be boosted (with a big engine ), it's so much easier and cheaper to increase power than a NA car...

There's a reason that all the insanely powerful cars (Veyron, Zonda, Enzo, Koenigsegg CCX, etc) all have big engines on top of various other things. Superchargers are parasitic in the fact that they need power from the egnine to run, and if you want big power from a turbo, you're going to have lag because it'll take some time to spool up. Small turbos needs very little time to spool, but you'll quickly run out of their efficiency range.
So I think turbos and superchargers aren't nessessarily replacement for displacement, but it compliments displacement as a way of making power easier.

i am pretty sure it is based on the lancer platform.... also, i know it will get a 5 star frontal, it is the side rating that needs to be improved. I would love to see some spy photos of the new viper.

-David

It's the next gen Galant, which might be a stretch version of the next gen Lancer... So it's kind of confusing. There are spy shops of a drivetrain mule floating around the net, it's just a current gen convertable with a different hood with the updated drivetrain, nothing too special to see yet.

I personally dont understand the whole thing with old-school looking cars. I like the new cars (mainly imports) that are gas-efficient, installed with all kinds of upgrades, and look.. well.. hi-tech

Other than that, the Challenger would make a nice exhibit in a museum.
-tom

That's fair, not everyone will like the older design (I'm 23 and I like certain retro cars and "modern" cars as well).
To me personally though, I really don't care about fuel efficiency. You're not going to have it both ways and have a powerful car that is efficient on gas, and being the enthusiast that I am I will pick power everytime (fuel efficiency is for a daily driver, power is for the fun weekend car).
When I hear of gas efficient cars, I think of the words "slow", "boring", and "tame". Not nessessarily words that would describe fun

This is the year that "No replacement for displacement" is proven to be no longer true.

Direct Injected gasoline engines with turbo is the new king.

I have data that shows a production 3.XL V6 completely blowing away the 5.7L V8 Hemi - both on HP and low end Torque. This includes "closed hood" back to back driving comparisons.

It's on the road in high performance vehicles already - the Mazdaspeed 6 has

274 HP @ 5500
280 FP @3000

coming from a 2.3L I4!

The thing is that regardless of what the Chrysler marketing whats the public to thing, the 5.7L isn't a performance engine, it's just a very stout everyday V8. The 6.1L is the performance version, everything about it has been upgraded from the 5.7. Lighter pistons, higher compression ratio, hotter cams, stronger crank, less restrictive intake manifold, etc.
The 5.7 also isn't tuned for low end torque either, it's an engine that wakes up higher in the rev band.

The "closed hood driving experience" isn't really fair IMHO. I'm not sure what V6 you're talking about, but it obviouly in another car, which would put many other factors into considerations like weight, gear ratios, transmission, and tuning just to name a few.

Is the Mazaspeed6 impressive? No question, but if that's what you're using to compare to a 5.7L 300C for example, it didn't "completely blow away" the 300C. They both run high 13s 1/4 times, but the C would trap at low to mid 100mph where as the 6 would be around the high 90s (the AWD is more parasitic yes). You also got to remember MS6 was designed as a performance car as well, where as the C wasn't.
Put the 2.3L turbo in a 4100lb car strap to a slushbox and see how it performs.

Peak power numbers doesn't mean much, it's the area under the curves that really show how powerful an engine is. My daily driven SHO with it's relatively little 220hp and 200lb/ft of torque can slowly out run a 260hp Acrua 3.2L Type S, both have relatively similar gearing but I have a much broader torque curve.


Sorry for this super long post...

 

[cheapo]

what dodge MUST DO is make the frame of the viper of Aluminum as Chevy did with a Corvette. I would love to work for Daimler Chrysler after college to design cars... i guess i'd need a major in engineering then.

by the way, take a look at this viper story.... its pretty cool:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7hO2O-QfAaQ&search=dodge srt

-David

 

[twentysixtwo]

which hemi is it "blowing away" in HP? As far as I know all the modern Hemis have 330hp+.

-david

The numbers I listed are for the 2.3L I4. If you scale up to a 3.5L displacement and assume the same power per CI, then you get 417 Hp.